Source
r/EDH•
MightBeExaggerating

How does Goad Work?

Or more in general, how does "attack if able" work in multiplayer games? If there are four players in a game:

  • Alex has Propaganda on the battlefield.
  • Barry has Savannah Lions.
  • Christy goads Barry's Savannah Lions.
  • Dave is mana screwed. Dave always gets mana screwed.

Who can or must Barry attack with the lions?

  • Can Barry say that he's going to attack Alex, but then refuse to pay the cost and not attack?
  • Or does Barry have to attack Dave in this case?

Thanks!

Posted Aug 20, 2016, 6:03 PM UTC

314
EspummaSek'Kuar, Deathkeeper •

The rules are you must fulfill as much requirements as you can, but those requirements don't ask you to jump through hoops. You can indeed want to attack Alex and then not pay any costs.

Someone that's not on mobile can probably answer this better and reference the specific rule.

3
Sovarius•

You can't choose to attack that player without paying costs.

3
MightBeExaggeratingOP•

Do either of you have rules to back that up? I have found 508.1d, and the rules clarification cards:

"If there’s a cost associated with having a creature attack, the player isn’t forced to pay that cost, so it doesn’t have to attack in that case either."

I just haven't been able to find anything about if there is associated cost with attacking one player, and not a cost with another.

2
EspummaSek'Kuar, Deathkeeper •

Now that I looked it up, it seems I was wrong. Savannah Lions must attack Dave if Propaganda isn't paid. u/SilentlyInWinter already quoted the exact ruling and explained it as well.

1
Sovarius•

He can attack either Dave for free or attack Alex if he wants to pay 2 mana.

2
MightBeExaggeratingOP•

This is what I would assume is intended, also. Have you found any rules that back it up?

1
SalchichaOloro •

Barry can't say he's attacking Alex and then just not pay the [[Propaganda]] cost. I think the way the card is written is already pretty clear but Propaganda's rulings say you pay the cost at the same time you declare attackers and it is an additional cost on the declaration of an attacker, therefore you cannot declare an attack on Alex without paying the cost.

So Barry can attack Dave for free, and he can attack Alex if he decides he wants to pay the cost. Obviously he can't attack Christy.

On a side note, I don't think goad can force someone to pay an additional cost like Propaganda's if they're in a situation where the only person they would be able to attack has one out.

2
MTGCardFetcher•

Propaganda - (G) (MC)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call

1
GhrrkSidisi, Numot, Queen Marchesa, Feldon•

From the mechanics article: "If it's tapped, then it can't attack. If there's a cost to attack, its controller doesn't have to pay that cost, and if he or she doesn't, the creature doesn't have to attack."

2
MightBeExaggeratingOP•

But what if the creature could attack another player without any cost? That's the big question here.

2
SilentlyInWinter•

Goad says the creature "attacks each combat if able", and "attacks a player other than you (the source of the goading) if able". Both of these requirements have to be fulfilled under 508.1d, though it also says you are not required to pay a cost to attack and make it an illegal attacker. So following the "do as much as you can" rule of thumb, if you choose not to pay and declare the goaded creature with the Prop player as the target, it still needs to attack, but it still doesn't want to attack Christy, so Dave has a creature going for his life points.

The fun part comes in when Dave is gone. Christy Goads the Savannah Lions again. Barry goes to attack and is not required to attack Alex and pay the tax, so the next legal attack target is Christy. The "if able" clause on the second half of the Goad ability prevents situations in games where a creature can't attack the "Goader" on games where it's down to two players, or tax effects come into play.

1
almighty_bucket•

in order for the lions to be able to attack alex, barry would have to pay the mana. If he doesn't they are still able to attack Dave and do.

1
PipNSFW•

Wait, so does goad prevent a creature from attacking at all in a two player game?

1
MightBeExaggeratingOP•

No. It doesn't attack the player "if able".

1