Source
r/Eve•
OrigHellion

Who’s Really Betting on Eve?

So as we all know CCP is making an upcoming change in the EULA for the new upcoming release of Alpha Clones. These changes include a paragraph or 2 regarding gambling and as predicted. We have a full Batman style meltdown going on. Over the last 20 hours or so I have read literally everything anyone has written, tweeted, streamed, or posted about what’s happened and I have a few thoughts.

What’s the real/perceived impact?

Imperium: Squealing with glee as you can imagine. The WWBee war was all about the Money Badgers Coalition being funded by one of the currently banned websites I Want Isk. The things these guys say is pretty incredible. Let me give you some highlights. “the war is illegitimate we should be given back all of our SOV territory in the North” “The IWI website was Real money trading (RMT) for profit.” “I don’t want to fight a war against assets that I can’t touch in game” “I don’t want to fight against endless money that we can’t effect in game”

Before any of this it should be noted that websites like IWI were not against EULA at the time of WWBee but despite that fact.

Eeep one of the founders of IWI is dead broke. So broke he has had to move 2 times in the last 4 months. So RMT claims are unlikely. As for the war and he stated live on Talking in Stations tonight. “you guys should have fought back even a little” We were burning through cash at the end so fast we were going broke” I literally threw our last few trillion isk at it”. So I guess those assets were in game and all you had to do was fight against groups in the MBC to effect it. Eeep went on to further explain that his accounts have been banned by CCP and assets seized. His biggest worry which he stated no less than 5 times during the stream, “Because I have been banned I can’t refund ISK to players. All I want to do is refund everyone’s ISK”

EVE – BET: Have basically said thanks we are packing up by the Nov 08 2016 due date. AT betting is still happening for the final tourney.

Eve-Bet has a lot of affiliates so does every gambling website in EVE. It may be streamers, news sites, twitch streams, article writers, or bloggers all paid in ISK. How will this affect them? Probably not very well. A lot are saying we will find a way but the only real way is going to have to be real money. Let’s face it. There is not going to be much of that floating around. This is too bad really. I feel like certain organizations were really hitting their stride. Groups like crossing zebras EVE_NT ect did provide a service that we all enjoyed. Plus really top notch AT streaming this year from EVE_NT.

CCP: Were online betting sites being used to launder ISK? Good question. They probably were. This could be very very bad at the time of Alpha Release! I think CCP realized this. They also probably realized that because of recent lawsuits with other gaming corporations that it would be best to clear the board before the Alpha clone release and I don’t blame them at all. What’s going to happen with all of that confiscated ISK? It will probably be reseeded into the market in various ways or events.

But we have a bit of a problem here.

Eve for is a great game with a great community. We can thank those older players that have hung on for 13+ years to build this thing from the ground up. People donating time and money to EVE and its community and doing some really amazing things. Charity events, Helplines ect.

Let’s face facts though. The population of eve is shirking. I’ve tried to think of people who these changes to the EULA will have little effect on. The answer. Not many. Whether you’re a Bee an MBC an AT participant a streamer a blogger a writer or website designer a moderator an event coordinator or even a bit of a gambling guy from time to time. I think these EULA changes may push a lot of community leaders away. Perhaps the backbone of eve is going to take a big hit?

This all being said who is really betting on EVE? I think CCP. They are taking a very big chance that the Alpha program will be a big success. It better Bee :)

TLDR: Batman meltdown in full effect. CCP changed EULA for new alpha changes and is betting big that it will be a massive success.

Posted Oct 13, 2016, 10:18 AM UTC · edited

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pouyanzGoonswarm Federation•

Wall of text, wall of text everywhere! Wall of text of whining, much wall of text since yesterday

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SkyEnzoGoonswarm Federation•

TLDR: Grr gons for enjoying the RMT bans.

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Fuzzmiester•

All I want to do is refund everyone’s ISK

And from the IWI site.

LOL look at the goons taking credit! lol. Hello everyone! We are working hard to recover our accounts as well as your ISK. You might also want to try asking CCP for your ISK back to see how quickly they deny you because CCP Peligro does not care. CCP Peligro has proven yet again that this is a personal vendetta for him as he even tweeted vindictive posts about this (now deleted by him from his twitter). He has blamed you for RMT and has taken your ISK. We are also being falsely accused of RMT and if we cannot recover your ISK for you, we will pursue this legally as we have already found grounds. (Keep in mind somer blink was allowed to pay their clients out) On another note: Gambling sites are not banned until November. This means you can set up a gambling site until then! Contact me at [email protected] if you would like me to set up a copy of IWI for you to run for your corp or alliance in this final month we will call, EVE GAMBLES MONTH . Setting up a new site for yourself does NOT violate the EULA and does not mean RMT as you will not be paying for any ISK or assets. Simply a copy paste of my code that I will set up on a server for you. Cheers! In the end of it all, if CCP decides to keep my account banned even though I know I did nothing wrong, I will develop IWI 1.0 into a P2P website with no central bank or central hub which means CCP will not be able to ban our system and you, the players, will receive YOUR ISK from other players using a mass pay and honor system.(P2P). We will get you your ISK. If they unban my account I can develop IWI into something that is in-game competitions and tournaments of sorts. Races even. But to flat out ban with no proof (as always) is very spiteful to the EVE community.

There's a little more there than 'All I want to do is refund everyone’s ISK'

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Motie-scoutWormholer•

I did have some sympathy, but after reading that, I am tending to come to the conclusion that If he had his account and isk returned that repaying his customers would be somewhat down his list of priorities, to put it mildly.

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OrigHellionOPJenk Corp•

Possibly. we may never know though. It would be interesting to find out.

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OrigHellionOPJenk Corp•

Ya I read that too. I'm thinking it may have been a knee jerk reaction post. But he did say it so..... I doubt they will peruse it legally though. Eeep later said that he wasn't playing EVE anymore anyway. He felt getting away from the website and shutting it down for good was a good thing. He said "whew ...I finally get a vacation from this crap" He did seem quite angry at a very specific CCP individual though. I have no idea what the validity of those claims are so I left all that out.

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RetributionZeroShadow Cartel•

LOL more tears.

The casinos were NOT good for the game. They were not "helping the community". I love how everyone who supports them is spinning and pulling the "help the community" line in every post.

Jesus christ guys this was for their personal gain. Sure, they may not have all been RMTing. In fact, im 90% sure they all wernt. Im not even convinced IWI was. But dont try to convince people that they were good for the community, because they did this to make isk. Did they support other community stuff? Well yeah of course. But thats not why they ran the casinos.

Not sure i agree with the complete ban. But at the end of the day, i dont think the casinos are "good for the community" as alot of you would have me believe.

Final point: fuck off with the "Grr Goons". Seriously, this isnt a goonie plot. There will always be people who support or disagree with changes. Goons supporting doesnt make them evil.

TL;DR - HAHAHAHA LOL THE TEARS ARE DELICIOUS!

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MrUnnderhillGallente Federation•

My man...I haven't seen a post since WWB about Nullsec being dead. I've watched countless PvP videos prefaced by the words "sponsored by [insert gambling site here]." I haven't had to slog through one of TMC or EN24's poorly written propaganda pieces in over a year thanks to Eve Bet and CZ.

I can't speak for the community, but they've helped me.

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OrigHellionOPJenk Corp•

Perhaps. As for the goons as an outsider and non participant in any null or lowsec activities. They appear to be a large collective hive mind that has been twisted by a very manipulative person who fancies himself an Emperor of sorts. The Emperor does seem to have an agenda to make out of game money however. While on his site I saw continuous spam posts about hooking amazon prime up to twitch. Also I read something about a failed book?

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Gazzz_NaCl Industries•

K

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DatEveAnonMordus Angels•

IWI funding WWB is just a rewritten narrative goons happen to like due to it giving them excuse of horrible enemies swarming from all corners at them, when they couldn't even hold us from independently dropping their sov in PB months before WWB.

The rest is just "Poor Eep is broke so no RMT" level argument to which I'm not even sure how to reply without giggling.

The change is good, the rmtears are tasty, the casinos are good riddance. I mean, look at all the "looking for a new sponsor for my leet peeveepee vids" threads popping up with former IWI customers looking where to buy their ISK now.

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ratt_man•

So everyone knows where I coming from I work/ed for eve-bet, been there for 3 AT's, only as a pleb

I am not surprised that they went this way, there is starting to be a serious legal /ethical problems with gambling. UK has court cases happening atm, even in aus there is a federal politician looking at CSGO gambling. They couldn't responsibly allow 3rd party gambling and take the risk that they get hauled over the fire for it.

I think CCP are hoping the alphas will save them. Think they will be disappointed, I got into eve due to the feeling of the wild west I got from it. Now it becoming more of a kindigarden

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OvermanEVEV0LTA•

I honestly think the space lawyer Texas law is a crock of horse shit. Everyone seems to cite U.K. Gambling regs or civil CSGO litigation. Just stahp. Everyone is a space 1L ffs.

Imho the big issue is that a 3rd party website was able to acquire such enormous amounts of wealth and then leverage that wealth to take down what was thought to be an insurmountable foe in the CFC.

They didn't generate that wealth through in game conquest or even using in game mechanics. They provide out of game enjoyment and an out of game service.

That distinction is important cause as much as I hate Space politics and space treaties, it's a part of the game and it's present in the gaming word. Betting on tennis is not.

This redistribution of enormous wealth, the lack of oversight and the eventual application of power derived from that wealth resulted in a situation which was unhealthy for the game.imho that's why this needed to happen. (Not to mention the gross temptation for RMT)

IMHO this asymmetrical power between services and actual eve alliances is something you just can't have. In game efforts need to trump third party services with their respect to their influence on the game.

That's why this has to happen. Not the lame ass space lawyers or space social justice warriors.

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Leetmcfeet•

The false narrative of the OP is precious. EeP has to move because of his habbits in real life and need for cash. I see people telling me I'm bad for involving real life - but false narratives keep being pushed when instead its problematic that nobody wants to help this man with his addiction as he spirals down the hole and that makes those who surround him selfish and greedy putting pixels before human beings. Sometimes you need to break that 4th wall and understand there are people out there who need help - but don't push your bullshit agenda and take advantage of the situation by making up a story - you won't get your isk back and this RMT empire is crushed - the fallout sucks; but it had to be done. Hundreds of accounts drained because theres no seperating whos a holding alt and whos not involved - who knows what money is clean its just known that all that isk was IWI's personal property and not the property of players - they forfeited that property when they donated it to IWI. CCP never guranteed their funds - gambling kingpings with a nack for RMT guranteed those funds. What money and assets are left the associates refuse to pay back into the community who made them. You push a fake ass narative to take advantage of peoples bad situations than the real shit comes out and you look like a piece of garbage, so drop it.

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OrigHellionOPJenk Corp•

what i posted is public record and can be quoted directly through written and audio pieces by the individuals themselves. what you wrote was entirely hearsay. So be careful with your "false narrative" accusations. Are quoted individuals telling the truth? I don't know nor do i care. it"s what they said.

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Leetmcfeet•

It's hearsay because you say its so? I don't use 3rd party sources for that information - its not what I read and not what was produced in a sound clip. To be clear the only piece I bridged myself was the idea that there is plenty of reason to believe money was needed because the reality of addiction. I assert that there is self preservation and greed as the situation is not as veiled as associates would suggest when they refuse to speak on the matter ( I think people knew ). Everyone was happy to continue with IWI - I speculate that there was no help lended to someone in need with their use and abuse - and people will not speak on this because its personal; but the use and abuse is no oppinion - is not interpretation - is not bridged or speculation - it is fact. Take that for what its worth; you can draw your conclusions as I've drawn mine. People have hard times in life and some succumb - but when I see a written piece that is contrary to how addicts act and think, I call that out - Now you've said your piece and I've said mine and people can decide if there is any reason to speculate RMT was not involved - you theorize it wasn't but maybe you have less experience to work with.

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OrigHellionOPJenk Corp•

It could be fact, but other than you there is no quotable individuals directly involved that are saying this. So wheres the proof? At any rate none of the little details really matter. What matters is whats going to happen moving forward. However what you posted originally is literally the definition of hearsay yes.

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JKJudgeX•

I think they should just make the gambling stuff in-game to help reduce the laundering and ISK selling problems.

We just need like, some dice, a roulette wheel, and something that picks a name out of a hat and awards them the jackpot. All of these things could be relatively easily built in-game. Throw a tax on it and let it become an ISK sink, keep it in a few specified 0.5 and below systems, with the best in-game casinos operating in nullsec, but some low-max-bet (10 mil ISK tops) games in 0.5 space, 50 mil ISK tops in lowsec, and sky's the limit in nullsec.

Anyway, with some variation of parameters like that, I really think "gambling areas" would become a thing, give people a reason to visit some of the pretty much unpopulated areas of hi and low sec, and could give small-to-medium sized corps something to get involved in...

They could even make you buy "chips" to gamble with so you have to risk what you're gambling by carrying real-world items between casinos and exchanges, so you could get jacked for your winnings in dirty, dirty, gambling systems.

I dunno.

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aesteus•

oh man the tears. point on the doll where goons touched you. also the game population has been growing in the past year. so nice try on the classic "eve is dying". The game was up before the casino's and will still be up long after.

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OrigHellionOPJenk Corp•

Despite hard evidence to the contrary? I hate to say it but you may be in the denial stage of the grief process .

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aesteus•

based on the post i would say that line is best for you mate. sorry for your loss GG m8 but please keep the tears coming.

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OrigHellionOPJenk Corp•

not sure what your referring to? what exactly am I crying about? Also why do you think I hate goons? I have literally never run into, had problems with, fought against, taken sov from or lost sov to any goon ever through the entirety of eve ever. all I have done is posted EXACTLY WORD FOR WORD WHAT GOON MEMBERS SAID THEMSELVES. God damn your reading comprehension is awful. I think you guys are so used to being slammed you think you are constantly being attacked. I feel for you man.

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Airic91•

I just liked to play eoh poker.... Fuck the casino raffles.... Sports betting was cool but I rarely did it.

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cosmicdragon1111Serpentis•

So you're telling us older players who have been playing for 13+ years are going to leave because they can't gamble any more?

No offense but that is simple not logical.

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OrigHellionOPJenk Corp•

Interesting conclusion you drew there. No I never said that at all.

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Rob_KaichinTest Alliance Please Ignore•

you guys should have fought back even a little” We were burning through cash at the end so fast we were going broke” I literally threw our last few trillion isk at it”. So I guess those assets were in game and all you had to do was fight against groups in the MBC to effect it.

There, from the horse's mouth.

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NazAlGhulGoonswarm Federation•

Didn't read that wall of text, all I know is no one wants Deklein back enough to go on yet another fuckin moveop

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EliteExcelGaming•

what else people do with pixels wich they too scared to lose in fights and has nothing to do ingame except collecting them

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SpamVLost in a hole•

Move along, nothing to see here.

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_TheJudgeCSM 11•

I didn't read that wall of text, sorry.

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ArkonOlacarJump Drive Appreciation Society•

tldr

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