Need some advice for Juggernaut on items and levelling.

I'm 4k for whatever that's worth wall of text incoming

General carry rule is you always want your first major item on any carry to be a farming item. Scaling is your goal and picking a farming item is going to make you pick up your subsequent items faster.

Early game items are kind of depend on what lane you think you are against. You can go PMS/tango or stout/mango/tango/salve/branch. Personally i go stout/tango/salve and then buy a QB from side shop right after the game starts on pretty much everything but any of the above is fine.

Typical build is Boots-->Aquila-->Farm item-->Game dependent shit. If you just want the "works every game" boots you get phase although treads is an option. Really the only 2 farming item choices are Yasha or Battlefury. Mask of Madness hasn't been good in a long time don't buy it.

Battlefury is definitely more powerful purely as a ricing item item but yasha is more efficient then the individual battlefury components are, so you have some extra kill power if you go yasha first.

Once you get the farming item you almost always go for manta. If you have BF then you want manta simply because its pretty much the next most efficient thing for increasing your farm speed and a powerful fighting item in its own right. Like you seem to be seriously underrating the fighting power of manta in your post the move speed, attack speed, stats, and bonus illusions make it very powerful. Sange and Yasha is just weak.

If you went yasha first then its pretty much compulsory to complete the manta, with the exception of the iceiceice build which goes yasha-->battlefury-->manta. If you are not going the iceiceice build the next item after manta is pretty much always diffusal blade because its relatively cheap AND diffusal blade is very powerful with the manta illusions since they get the mana burn. The purge ability is also really good at keeping people in place so you can kill them.

Only exception to not building yasha or battlefury after your aquila is if you are up against an omniknight lineup you want to just build the diffusal blade right after aquila. You obviously get a manta after it for the diffusal blade syngery.

Somewhere you want a blink dagger. Once you have a fair amount of damage the main way to increase your farm speed is to cut the time it takes to get to creeps, and blink helps there. Blink also gives you a lot of kill power since you can just blink on people and then blow them up.

MKB is an item you pretty much only ever get vs evasion. Typical 6 slot is something like bot/manta/diffusal/blink/abyssal/bfly or bot/bfury/manta/blink/abyssal/bfly.

Stats guide: Your friend is using an obsolete build from when the Q was bad. Max your Q. Get 1 point in your crit at some point. Max your W. Max your ult. Pretty much the rest go in stats. You try to use your W for sustain. The subsequent points in crit dont give you a lot of return on investment. Stats give you more damage more hp and more mana to use your skills more. If you do it right you should find that you don't really need an early game sustain item.

TLDR:Aghs sucks. MoM sucks. BF is fine. SnY Sucks. Deso sucks unless you have no orb and are just trying to hit buildings to end the game. Buy BF if you want to rice hard all game. Early vanguard is sort of situational but can work if you are in some sort of all in fighting build but most of the time you should just be focusing on ricing. Use Yasha to click on creeps and run enemy heros down. Manta Style and BKB are fine together but BKB is item you try to avoid building. See above paragraph for stats.

You're correct on both Aghs and MoM, they are outdated builds (not sure agh was ever a core item but w/e.

A lot of the rest of your analysis isn't quite on point, but its a good start. Generally speaking jugg is not a burst carry. His crit is nice and reliable, but its not for instant kills. Jugg is very much a "dps carry" typically through attack speed, which benefits you in omnislash as well.

Jugg usually doesn't pick up lifesteal though, since healing ward provides immense sustain in the first place, and jugg also has high armor. In 'fighting' builds, lifesteal is relatively ineffective in "PvP" while the ward is already quite good (provided you can avoid having it killed). In 'farming' builds the battlefury has sufficient sustain and lifesteal isnt needed.

More generally since jugg already has a great crit, built in sustain, and nuke/magic immunity (plus his ult), his primary issue is building to not die instantly from magic or not get outcarried by other right clickers. Jugg is very good through the early/mid game, and just barely falls off to some other carries late. With that in mind the "fighting" build is more popular at the moment because you typically wont have time for a farm fest and a level 7 jugg with just phase/RoA can be very scary against enemies with no eacape mechanism.

• diffusal procs with illusions, so diffusal/manta is a standard "fighting" build, using the manta to get more mana burn. (Opening RoA/Phase->yasha/diff/manta typically). Yasha's move speed bonus is nice for farming speed as well. Blink can be good here too (as the diffusal active is great for blink-diffuse-omni if needed).

• the battlefury build is used when you have "space" and can get it early. While BF is very effective against tightly packed targets, its primary mission is to be online ~15m followed by accelerated farming speed. Your intent here is purely to pick up late game items necessary to disappear for a bit (minus ganks when ult is up) and primarily build towards mid-late agi+str stat items, plus any utility you might need (linken, bkb, manta, mkb)

• although you refer to your RoA as your only "damage" item, yasha and SnY are fairly efficient here. You should pick up SnY when you have a decent lead and are looking to keep pressure on the enemy, as it has a good mix of cost and slot efficiency. You need hp, armor, damage, and the slow/movespeed combo from maim and yasha bonuses is very good to prevent escaping enemies.

• late game jugg looks something like (skadi, bfly, travels, [utility], BF/Diffusal, Manta/SnY) . Jugg's notable for having such a good ability set that you dont need to pick up much aside from more stats.

• it is worthwhile to sometimes go satanic as you can use the active during omnislash. Theres a fine line between making this useful and screwing it up though. And an early helm is a damper on fighting prowess.

• utility could be... linken/mkb/satanic/bkb, etc. (even halberd if you build SnY and then split it up for manta). If you dont need a defensive utility item it can be more damage, rapier, whatever.

• vlad isnt a good pickup on jugg because its ultimately slot-inefficient. Vlad is a great item that should be a support/offlane pickup, not a 1 position.

Levelling, stats-build is also outdated, your build is pretty on point, though going 4-1-4-1 at 10 is viable as well, as is levelling ward and crit together instead of maxing (both are percent based). It's not done as much anymore but going 1-4-4 is still alright sometimes. Spin damage is hard to ignore though.

Aghanim's Sceptre

it's not good. I mean, if a teammate buys it on their jugg I don't get tilted, but it's not efficient. More slashes is nice, but 4200 gold of other items means you get the same DPS in ult and when it's on cooldown. It's best if you get it early, since extra slashes means a lot more when your ult is level 1, but then you're only useful for ult.

Mask of Madness

Not good any more. If you want move speed get Yasha (you want S&Y or Manta anyway) If you want sustain, you have your ward, and you might get Perseverence en route to BF anyway.

Battle Fury

• games against swarms (PL, NP, Brood etc)
• Games where you can afford to go late

If you can't afford to take the game late, then you usually get something more mid-range like Diffusal.

Sange and Yasha

S&Y gives a big movement speed bonus and a cripple proc, which means your ults are better. Its cheaper than Manta and the buildup is easier to get, especially when there's a lot of killing and dying happening. Echo's proc is on a timer so it's not good during ults, and Jugg attacks faste enough that +1 attack every 5 seconds is not a big boost. Echo isn't bad on Jugg, but it's probably a waste of a slot.

Helm of the Dominator

Jug doesn't usually build HotD, but you don't need to stack ancients to benefit. Stack hard camps and spin to win, or find an alpha wolf and provide a damage aura to the entire team.

Vladmir's Offering

Vlads is when you aren't position 1. You get cheaper items, and you might already have aquila so you can dissassemble it to get a cheaper vlads. You don't see this build on jugg often though.

Vanguard

Vanguard is good, but often unnecessary to rush - just a shield + perseverence + healing ward is usually enough. If you have sustain problems though, why not? After all, building into abyssal is often a good idea.

Starting Items

Try to get shield first, then get quelling next. IIRC Aquila is almost the same boost in damage as Phase for a lot cheaper, so it's worth getting. As always, you should use your best judgement, but a lot of people get Aquila, then go for phase or RoH depending on slots and whether they need to buy out before dying.

Mid game

Yasha is good because it provides a bit of move speed as well.

LEVELING

Generally the build is Q E Q (W or stats) Q R Q etc.

I've seen so many people stocking up on stats though.

Ignore your friend. Stats are good because Jugg can use a lot more mana than he usually has, and his ult gets expensive quickly. A few points in stats early really helps alleviate this problem of needing burst man.

Spin uses less mana, does more damage, and has lower cooldown as you level it. This gets maxed first.

Ward starts off good and gets better, but 1 or 2 points is often enough for a while.

Crit doesn't scale well (with points - it scales well with your farm), so you max that last.

Fuck. Nobody? This post is gold.

Well, I'm in the same boat as you, but here is what I think:

Vlad gives you sustain for jungling and mana regen. It seems very efficient on heroes that stick to fights, since their team can use the aura as well.

It can be used on heroes that will fight constantly and demands low mana. Slardar, for example.

It's also a good option for heroes like Void. You fight when you have ult. When it's on cooldown, Vlad is enough to replenish your mana until the next fight and it keeps you farming.

I would not do it if you intend to split push alone, or just stay away farming.

MoM is an excellent option if you intend to split push. You'll have sustain, movespeed and more damage. This alone will increase your GPM a lot.

It's viable for a 1v1 fighting, allows you to push harder, but it sucks on team fight if they can just shut you down.

Still an option for clashes if your supports can keep you alive.

Works great with Phase Boots.

Vanguard for me is another option for fighting. If you think you're gonna be focused, Vanguard will probably be better than Vlad.

The problem here is your mana. If you're going to fight, you'll need mana. I don't know if Aquila is enough here, or if you just trust your team will help you with arcanes.

Maybe Aquila + Echo Sabre in this scenario?

The problem here is: you have neither lockdown nor movespeed, so unless you trust this to your team, you'll have a low kill potential on midgame.

That's probably why people get Aquila + SY, because they are trying to tank a little more in the midgame fights without losing kill potential?

We need to do the math. But I hope it helps a little.

I've been playing a lot of Jugg lately and I try to avoid being the pos 1 hard carry if I can. In which case I build Diffusal really early which adds a huge amount of kill potential because of the purge/slow. ez ganks. Then I start working on Manta unless there's an item needed to counter a problematic hero. After that I just do whatever feels good: Blink, BKB, SnY, whatever.

If I do end up as the hard carry, I Brown Boots into Aquila or Drums depending on how well the early ganks go. Then I start a farming item. If things are rough or you are fighting a lot early, I suggest Maelstrom which is cheaper than Battlefury but doesn't scale as well as your damage increases. Otherwise, if you have the space to farm it, build the later. Then the simplest path is to build some kind of lifesteal (probably not MoM though) and a BKB.

Jugg is a really versatile hero who excels in the mid game imo. His skillset is all about coming online early and bullying the enemy team out of farming space. As long as he's got some sort of backup when he goes ham, he's really scary. That being said he doesn't have any abilities that complement his crits well so if he is going to carry, he's really item dependent after 30 minutes and the game changes.

edit: as far as boots go, again,versatile. I keep them brown for 60% of the game because he's strong as-is. Then I'd probably get BoT's. If you want early boots though, phase are good for getting in ulti range before the next creepwave shows up.

BFury nowadays is kinda the same lika a midas for other heroes.

It Buffs your Farming speed after you bought it, but it doesn't help you in any other aspect of the game.

I only go BFury on Jugg if I know that me team can hold out 4vs5 for 25+ Minutes and that's rarely the case.

Most players go Yasha first and then Yasha->Diffblade->Manta (because manta+diffblade = good fighting power). And at this meta right now you have to be online as early as possible. Because jugg can't "outfarm" the nowadays farm heroes, you have to snowball through killing and increasing farmingspeed is only necessary if you have the time and space for it, which is currently rarely the case nowadays.

I tested around a bit with Jugg. Most of the games I go Some early game items (PMS; Drums; Aquila) Boots (Phase+Aquila / Treads+Drums) into Yasha and then look whats possible.

Do I have space for the next few minutes (does my enemy still need their core items), does my enemys have through BKB+TP stuns (spin+tp).

If not and my team has no split pushing; i go Bfury and splitpush the hell out of them (try to not get ganked) and farm up that bfury; manta/sny/diffblade/blinkdagger/abyssal.

Vanguard first is very bad in my opinion. And PMS should be enough and the cost early on is to high for what the item gives you. You don't need high survability in fights early on as you should concentrate on farming and not getting caught off. You have healing ward to heal you up if needed. And with spin+tp it's unlikely that you get caught offguard.

Aghs is straight garbage on jugg. The main reason being that you right click during omni, so you are much better off just building more right click damage, especially agility. Manta is 10 times better than aghs, so are skadi and butterfly.