Source
r/truezelda•
Austin_Drake

An Open Discussion on What the Famitsu Article Called Ganon.

Recently I translated several parts of the Famitsu article on BotW. However, there was one page I missed. I thought page 169 was the title cover, when there was actually a page before it. Now for the most part there wasn't much new on page 168. But there was a line that caught my attention:

Page 168

そこは、１００年前大厄災と呼ばれる災害で滅亡したハイラルだった！！(soko wa hyakunen-mae daiyakusai to yobareru saigai de metsubō shita hairaru datta!!)

There, was the Hyrule that was destroyed 100 years ago by a disaster called the Great Calamity.

Now the writing of the isn't the same. But 大厄災(daiyakusai) is another way as saying the same thing as 大いなる災い(ooi naru wazawai). Which is the Japanese name of the "Great Cataclysm" mentioned in ALttP (There written as オオイナル ワザワイ(ooi naru wazawai). With 厄災(yakusai) and 災い(wazawai) being synonyms, both meaning a disaster, calamity, or misfortune. While 大いなる(ooi naru) means 'to be/become big/great,' and 大(dai) carries the meaning of 'big/great.'

Now this seems really odd to me. As mention by Aonuma, the line given by the old woman from the Switch Presentation trailer says that Ganon has been witnessed multiple times throughout Hyrule's History.

ハイラル王国の歴史は太古の昔から幾度もガノンという名の厄災に見舞われてきた歴史。(hairaru ōkoku no rekishi wa taiko no mukashi kara ikudo mo ganon to iu na no yakusai ni mimawarete kita rekishi)

The history of the Hyrule Kingdom, since the ancient past, is a history have having witnessed many times a calamity of a name called Ganon.

Assuming Famitsu was correct in calling him that, how does this line from Famitsu tie together with the trailer of Ganon being witnessed many times? If BotW is the Sealing/Imprisoning War, this really should only be the second time Hyrule has suffered at the hand of Ganon. Unless they are counting all the periods of suffering the Kingdom has gone through in the last 100 years as part of the many times, or the speaker has some knowledge of Ganon's connection to Demise.

But if it isn't the Imprisoning War, does this mean Hyrule continued to call him the Great Calamity long into the timeline? Or is this just a case of a similar name being attached to a Ganon outside the Defeated Timeline?

What is everyone else's thoughts on this?

Posted Feb 3, 2017, 3:18 PM UTC

3436
JCiLee•

I think there is some confusion over what the Great Cataclysm is. I don't think it is the Imprisoning War, because the Great Cataclysm is spoken of in prophetic terms during the events of A Link to the Past.

"Do you know the prophecy of the Great Cataclysm? This is the way I heard it... If a person with an evil heart gets the Triforce, a Hero is destined to appear...and he alone must face the person who unleashed the Great Cataclysm. If the evil one destroys the Hero, nothing can save the world from his wicked reign. Only a member of the Knights of Hyrule, who protected the Hylian royalty, can become the Hero... You are of their bloodline, aren't you? Then you must rescue Zelda without fail!"

  • Maiden

"The Hero's triumph on Cataclysm's Eve wins three symbols of virtue. The Master Sword he retrieves, keeping the Knight's line true."

  • Pedestal

"I am Aginah. I sense something is happening in the Golden Land the seven wise men sealed... This must be an omen of the Great Cataclysm foretold by the people of Hylian blood..."

  • Aginah

The Wiki offers a theory:

Due to the similarities between the events of Ocarina of Time and A Link to the Past, some have theorized that the prophecy of the Great Cataclysm could refer to a series of similar events that happened in different periods in the history of Hyrule, each time a hero showed up against the evil one who possessed the Triforce. Thus, the prophecy would apply to the Links of Ocarina of Time, Twilight Princess, The Wind Waker and A Link to the Past, as all of them defeated a Triforce-wielding Ganon with the Master Sword and prevented a conquest of Hyrule. The specific details regarding the Link of A Link to the Past (the Pendants of Virtue, the bloodline of the Knights, the Book of Mudora) could have been simply more specific references to the prophesied hero of that era. A similar legend is told on the back of the box for The Wind Waker, referring to a prophecy that states that whenever evil arises, a hero named Link will defeat it.[12] The Great Cataclysm could be a similar prophecy.

If this is true, then the Calamity Ganon's name wouldn't suggest a particular timeline placement.

14
legendofhilda•

If the evil one destroys the Hero, nothing can save the world from his wicked reign.

Huh. That's interesting. If they didn't describe it as a prophecy I'd say that's what happened with the Downfall timeline. Hero is defeated - nothing stops Ganon from reappearing and wreaking havoc.

5
JaceXAnders•

That seems to specifically refer to the HoT. However, with BotW being almost certainly in the DT, it could be more broadly interpreted to refer to any hero, and its just a coicidence we've only had two Heroes fail.

1
Serbaayuu•

Aonuma's hint makes me think he wants us to think it's late in the timeline. But so many other things in the game point closer toward the Imprisoning War era, and I want it to be there for so many reasons! I really think it can go either way at this point. It all depends on how literally we need to take Impa(?)'s words.

6
AlucardIV•

It all depends on how literally we need to take Impa(?)'s words.

Well what kind of hint would Aonuma's comment be if we can't take the old Woman's statement literal? Without that the statement says basically nothing.

10
JaceXAnders•

For IW you have:

  • Hyrulian Civil War

  • Ganon's taking of the Sacred Realm

  • 7 Years of Terror

  • The start of the IW

  • The events of BotW's backstory

  • BotW's present

For a total of 4 to 6 attacks. That seems reasonable for a literal interpretation of the old woman's line.

3
AlucardIV•

Except that the old man says that Calamity Ganon appeared suddenly.

You'd think after 7 years of terror they'd be kinda expecting him.

0
JaceXAnders•

I don't understand your point. The 7 Years of Terror is long in the past by the time Calamity Ganon happens. Moreover, they weren't expecting Calamity Ganon because they sealed Ganon decades/centuries prior, and he had never escaped before. Thus, they were completely unprepared. Similar to what's described in WW's prologue, and in TP.

3
henryuuk•

which other things point at closer to the imprisoning war ?

6
Serbaayuu•

Temple of Time, gorons and zora are still in Hyrule, if I'm right about Zelda awakening as Hylia in OoT it'd explain the Sheikah returning, the description of Ganon during the war matches up pretty nicely with the Calamity Ganon.

5
henryuuk•

ah, just cases of things being "closer" to previous examples then ?

I thought I missed something big

4
Serbaayuu•

Yeah, pretty much. There's some scary-but-not-impossible handwaving happening for this game at the end of the branch. The world overall fits much more neatly into a pre-ALttP setting.

1
DrDjMD•

Yep, I'm taking it at face value as another late down the dt hint.

Post-oot (in real life) I think it makes sense to assume ganondorf getting into the sacred realm in oot is the great cataclysm referred to in alttp. It's just confusing bc it seems like it has to be an iw reference since oot didn't exist at the time (when alttp came out).

But it still makes sense for the great cataclysm to not be the iw if the great cataclysm/lore was meant to establish the cycle of hero/Ganon that alttp set up (by being a prequel to loz/aol and having a different hero/link). The iw would then be a consequence of the great cataclysm (Ganon shows up and link is victorious/falls), but not the gc itself.

So if the great cataclysm was the original ganondorf from oot we would know for sure that calamity Ganon and ganondorf are the same thing/have the same origin.

Either way it indicates the dt.

1
henryuuk•

I think this is just a return of an old way to refer to Ganon.
It isn't unique to that time to be called that.

6
Austin_DrakeOP•

That could definitely be the case. It just seems odd that we never heard the Great Cataclysm mentioned again after ALttP.

But that doesn't mean such a moniker wasn't still in use. And could just be we were never in the right context for Ganon to be called that during the post-ALttP games.

3
EliteAgent51•

In the Latin American trailer, the old woman calls him, "... a cataclysm known as Ganon ..."

3
MarhThrombus•

All trailers call him that. But that "Great Cataclysm" moniker is the one used by the Famitsu article.

2
Mido128•

Is the Great Cataclysm a person or an event?

The notes found here (search Cataclysm) seem to indicate that it's foretelling the events of ALttP. Would you agree with this assessment?

6
Austin_DrakeOP•

It is presented as a prophecy. But was presented as an ancient inscription on the pedestal from likely when it was last used, if not before. But still the context of the Great Cataclysm is presented as Ganon's return or rise. So it seems interesting that the disaster he caused in BotW is also being given a synonymous name.

3
DrDjMD•

Sort of but Ganon doesn't get the triforce in alttp, he's already had it for a while/since oot's dt started.

It's splitting hairs but that's the main reason I'd say the Great cataclysm was oot.

Even if the gc prophecy is foretelling the events of alttp it would still relate back to when ganondorf touched the triforce, which was oot. Which could make sense, it would just imply that the prophecy left out the fall of the hot/the iw, which could maybe have something to do with the dt split in the first place.

3
Kiyanavasala•

the Japanese name of the "Great Cataclysm" mentioned in ALttP

Is it referred to the same way in Japanese throughout the entire game? (The pedestal, Aginah, the Skull Woods maiden)

3
Austin_DrakeOP•

Yep.

Aginah: ７賢者をはじめハイリアの民の血をひく者の間に伝わる予言『オオイナル ワザワイ』の前ぶれですじゃ。(shichi kenja o hajime hairia no tami no chi o hiku mono no aida ni tsutawaru yogen "ooi naru wazawai" no maebure desu ja.)

(This) is a prelude of the "Great Calamity" prophecy that is circulated among those that inherit the blood of the citizens of Hylia, starting with the Seven Sages.

Pedestal: 『オオイナル ワザワイ』のふりかかる時、３つの紋章をかかげし『勇者』来たりて、その手で、この剣を引きめくであろう。その者ナイトの一族の血をひく者なり。("ooi naru wazawai" no furikakaru toki, mitsu no monshou o kakageshi "yuusha" kitarite, sono te de, kono ken o hikimeku de arou. sono mono naito no ichizoku no chi o hiku mono nari.)

When the "Great Calamity" befalls, a "Hero" carrying three crests will come, and with those hands (they) will draw this sword. That person is one who inherits the blood of the knight clan.

Skull Woods Maiden: …『オオイナル ワザワイ』の予言は知っていますか？私は、こうきいています…。(..."ooi naru wazawai" no yogen wa shitte imasu ka? watashi wa, kou kiite imasu...)

...Do you know the prophecy of the "Great Calamity?" I hear it like this...

3
Kiyanavasala•

Thanks.

3
nostradamusofhyrule•

If IW = Great Cataclysm in this game, then that means OoT is not it. Which means there's no downfall timeline because that's predicated on Link failing, but only if IW = OoT.

1
Austin_DrakeOP•

Hyrule Historia already lays out that the Hero of Time's failure and Ganon's first sealing within the Sacred Realm (along with the Triforce) is a seperate event from the Imprisoning War. Even stating Hyrule had a period of peace after Ganon's sealing, until greedy individuals, seeking the Triforce (as the result of Ganondorf's actions prior), entered the Sacred Realm. Which leads to the Imprisoning War, when Ganon's army poured into Hyrule.

2
nostradamusofhyrule•

What page? Because the timeline page contradicts this. Though I'm not surprised. Nothing in the Historia is consistent.

2
Austin_DrakeOP•

What page? Because the timeline page contradicts this.

No it doesn't. If look at the Child and Adult timelines on page 69, they don't mention what caused their split. Nor do they include the events of OoT after their split on the table. The 'Hero is Defeated' is listed before the timeline title 'The Decline of Hyrule and the Last Hero.' With the Imprisoning War being after that. So the Hero of Time was already defeated before the Imprisoning War took place.

And as for the pages where this separation is outlined, pages 92 & 93.

The Hero of Time’s Defeat

Ganondorf the thief obtained the Triforce of Power and managed to get his hands on Princess Zelda. The Hero of Time, Link, challenged him in a battle that would determine Hyrule’s very existence, and lost.

The Seven Sages Seal away the Demon King

Ganondorf the thief obtained the Triforce of Power and managed to get his hands on Princess Zelda. The Hero of Time, Link, challenged him in a battle that would determine Hyrule’s very existence, and lost. At last, Ganondorf found himself in the possession of the Triforce of Wisdom that dwelt within Princess Zelda, and the Triforce of Courage that dwelt in Link. His true power achieved, he transformed into the Demon King. The Seven Sages of Hyrule, led by Princess Zelda, sealed Ganon and the Triforce in the Sacred Realm as a final resort.

The Imprisoning War

For a brief time, it seemed as though peace had returned to the kingdom. However, there were many who knew of the existence of the Triforce and the entrance to the Sacred Realm because of the events set in motion by Ganondorf. Their lust aroused, they rushed to gain access to the holy land in their quest to obtain the power of the gods. Little did they realize that the Sacred Realm had been transformed into the Dark World by Ganondorf ’s evil heart. None returned from their adventures. Instead, only the power of darkness flowed forth. - Hyrule Historia, pgs. 92&93

3
nostradamusofhyrule•

That's basically the same thing. And ALttP refers specifically to Ganondorf before he became Ganon. It's true, no character ever connects the two events (Ganondorf and IW) explicitly. But the context of Great Cataclysm does. You need Ganon to have the Cataclysm. The Cataclysm was averted through the IW. In that regard, it's almost a moot point as to whether Historia claims it happened during or shortly after OOT; it contradicts ALttP. I will concede you would have an airtight argument otherwise. Thanks for the info.

2
sreamer17ydr•

I read everyone else's comments below... and yours... and HH states some interesting info. First of all, after Hero of Time (OoT) fails at defeating Ganondorf, he obtains the full Triforce and the sages and Zelda seal him away into the Sacred realm along with Triforce (creating the Dark realm). Peace happens after that, but than the IW happens... according to HH it is a few years AFTER the sealing. After the IW, than A link to the past happens.

So I think, the Great Cataclyism is just a prophecy of what happened in OoT, hero failed, Ganon took over, and a new hero in several games awakens to fight ganon several times in history. Heck even at the end of the DF timeline in AoL, Ganon's underlings are still at it... so maybe BotW is the end of the DT.

1
nostradamusofhyrule•

If you meant to respond to me, then that's wrong. IW happened after Ganon claimed the Triforce. ALBW confirms this in its backstory.

Ganon steals the Triforce and tries to take his campaign back to Hyrule.

[OMITTED DETAILS ABOUT IW]

ALttP Link (called on by Zelda) stops him before he can get out.

I was waiting for Austin to reply before I brought this up, but it shows nothing supports HH. However, you don't even need to bring ALBW into the equation. It contradicts what the maiden tells you in ALttP, that if the hero were to fail nothing could stop Ganon. That includes the dead Sages. Additionally, why would Ganon ever go back to the Sacred Realm if he had the Triforce?

1
sreamer17ydr•

I know, a lot of the theorys just don't add up fully. BotW has really tore the lore and timeline up, along with Rito and Zoras now in the same game, its like who knows where it falls now.

1
MLF83•

I'm pretty confident that their effort to reference Ganon as a "calamity" has a deeper lore meaning and it also implies some difference with the "traditional" Ganon.

Whether the reference to ALTTP means a direct timeline connection or not, I think there is the possibility they will expand on the phropecy, given all the elements are there (calamity ganon, the MS with three suspicious pillars, Link as a probable knkght/champion).

Now this seems really odd to me. As mention by Aonuma, the line given by the old woman from the Switch Presentation trailer says that Ganon has been witnessed multiple times throughout Hyrule's History.

I think it is important to understand what Anouma really said on this matter, I saw two different translations and one is clearly wrong (since it mentions a "young lady") so there might also be some subtlety that we are missing. I think there is the possibility that since the line refers to Calamity Ganon and not Ganon, Anouma is not really giving us such a blatant hint.

Maybe you can shed some light, in the original video roughly at 2:00 you can hear the final part of that answer in japanese. What does he say exactly?

1
Austin_DrakeOP•

I think there is the possibility that since the line refers to Calamity Ganon and not Ganon, Anouma is not really giving us such a blatant hint.

So far I have only heard "Calamity Ganon" used as a moniker in the English versions. French, Spanish, and the original Japanese version all either call him Ganon or a variation of calamity by the name of Ganon. And this case is no different.

Here was Aonuma's response:

私はプレイヤー自身が発見する事を望むので、私はその質問に答えることはできません。しかし、いくつかの手がかりあります。女性はガノンといくつもの戦いをしていると言っています。(watashi wa pureiyā jishin ga hakken suru koto o nozomu node, watashi wa sono shitsumon ni kotaeru koto wa dekimasen. shikashi, ikutsu ka no tegakari arimasu. josei wa ganon to ikutsu mo no tatakai o shite iru to itte imasu.)

I can't answer that question, because I desire players to discover it themselves. However, several clues exist. A woman is saying many battles are fought with Ganon. With that, you can think of the approximate scale of time.

Which is a reference to this line from the trailer. Which I posted a translation to the Japanese version of the line in my OP.

1