Thegamebriel Interviews Ken Levine the creative director of Bioshock and Bioshock Infinite

“I can't believe I'm doing this.”

Those were the words I kept repeating in my head, over and over as I was scribbling notes in my little red notepad while I was on an airplane. I had all of these things I was trying desperately to recollect, as I looked upon the OTHER scribbles in my notepad from jotting down words from a man I had no idea I would ever even get to talk to. I had gotten to speak with someone who inspired me in a way that not a lot of other things could have. I wanted to take my time with writing this Interview, and really let it get to me. I'm not getting paid to write these things, I'm not being given a deadline. Its the first interview if posted in Forever it seemed, It's for me, and I want to do it right and make it good. After all, It is Ken Levine we’re talking about.

  Abstract ideas are more than welcome in my brain, simply for the fact that they can mean anything, be anything, create anything, and most importantly, feel anything.

What's beautiful about an abstract idea is that you can get 100 people in a room, and they will all see something different from this thing, this idea. Unfortunately, some people get so sunk into what everyone else sees that they can't see something for themselves, or let themselves feel what they need to feel. It requires an open mind and some people just refuse to let that happen.

 Ken Levine.

Game Creative Director, most widely known for Directing “Bioshock” and “Bioshock Infinite” Was kind enough to let me take him away from his wife and his dog for about an hour and pick his brain so I could have some inspiration to do something cool. He didn't have to even give me the time of day, but he did. I explained the purpose of this blog before the interview and he was totally on board with it and super cool, and even commended me for doing such a thing and reaching out to a complete stranger for inspiration, which meant a lot coming from someone who I truly respect.

There was a lot of anticipation for me because Ken was really the first “Famous” person I ever met. The Bioshock games are widely popular, especially the two that Ken took the lead on. When Ken finally agreed after me persisting for several years, I naturally had the jitters. He told me to call him around ten pm est.

What does that mean? Like, a little before ten? A little after? Right at ten? And of course, I called too soon. I had called him at 945 and he answered saying “Hey man, we’re not supposed to be talking for another 20 minutes. I'll call you in 20.”

It was at that moment I thought I blew it. Until I saw an incoming call from Ken Levine. On MY cell phone.

I tried to keep my cool. I answered,

“Hello this is Gabriel.”

Thegamebriel interviews: Ken Levine

Q1: What got you into gaming?

“I was really enchanted by penny arcades as a child and, even board games before that. Stuff like squad leader, were types of games my brother got me into, until my parents eventually got me an Atari and I was the happiest kid on earth.”

Q2: What would you say your favorite game is?

“That's a really hard question to answer. It just kinda depends on what's going on. I've always been a fan of “XCOM” and and “Civilization”. Those are probably the ones I go back to the most, but right now I'm actually really into “Rocksmith” not even really from a gaming aspect but, more as a teaching tool. It's awesome.”

Q3: Would you define games as an art form? Or is that too heavy?

Ken was hesitant about answering this and some of the details were lost,only because it is kind of a loaded question. It's a topic of controversy and debate that's been more prevalent for about a decade now. With reason and tact, Ken replied;

“People tend to look for some kind of external validation and like to come out and say ‘oh yes video games are art’ because a lot of people are embarrassed of playing video games. That doesn't mean it's art one way or another. Video games can move me the same way that a book, or music, or a film could move me. So to me, it's art in that way. Not calling it art for the sake of debate.”

Q4: What was your favorite game you directed?

“Each game had its own kind of, feel and perks, and each one had its own experience, so it's hard for me to pick just one but, I can tell you that 

Bioshock infinite was fun in the fact in working with the narrative team and the voice actors.

Bioshock was fun In just working with the smaller team, and just having this sort of connected feeling.

System shock 2 was fun in the fact that none of us had ever shipped a game before and we had like no budget for the game, it was like 600,000 bucks for everything which like, nothing, and we were all flying by the seat of our pants and it all seemed like such a reach, we were working with an engine that couldn't really keep up with the 3D rendering the way that “Quake” and “Doom” could. But we were having fun with it, and we just wanted to make something different, that could stick out. So, When System Shock 2 got the acclaim that it did, we were all shocked. It was just a really good feeling.

Each game has its own perks, so it's hard to pick a favorite.”

Q5: What does “Bioshock” even mean?

“It means, I made it up. It didn't ever really have to mean anything, I just wanted to make it sound cool with like a system shock kind of feel, I remember throwing names around like;

‘Toxic shock’

People were like ‘Nope. You can't call it that, it doesn't sound right.’

Until eventually I got around to ‘Bioshock’ and people liked it. And it stuck.”

We talked for a little about music and how that can actually be therapeutic and found out that Ken actually plays in a band sometimes. Fun fact. So we talked about that for a bit.

Q6: You mentioned before you like to play guitar?

“Yeah I've been playing guitar for about 20 years, not because I think I'm so good or anything, but because I really enjoy it, I do play in a band even though I'm the worst guy there and it's fun, I really enjoy it.”

Q7: You didn't direct Bioshock 2, it's not really your story or your vision at all, have you played it?

“You know, I'm probably the last person you want to ask about Bioshock 2, because it's kind of like someone dating your ex girlfriend. You don't have any bad feelings toward the guy that has her now, but you don't necessarily want to embrace the fact that he has her.

And that's just how it is with The team who made that game, it's nothing against them or anything like that, they're all very talented. I just particularly don't want to play it.”

Q8: I heard something about you working on an interactive twilight zone movie, or show or something? Is that still happening?

“It's hard to say. It's a very big Maybe, the idea is there and it's mine, but whether it's going to come to fruition or not is still yet to be determined. It could go either way, and that's just what you learn in the entertainment business is that you just don't know what could happen.”

Q9: What was your favorite subject in school?

“My favorite subject was putting comic books between the pages of my text books so I could make it through the day. (We laughed)

No, all joking aside, I did love Language and drama, and things like that. I liked a lot of subjects in school.”

Q10: What are you currently working on?

Ken swore me to secrecy on some of these details, so I can't divulge everything he did tell me about the game. The thing he did say that I can tell you is this;

“It is definitely a shooter, with a high replayability experience, ‘Bioshock’-y with a more RPG element narrative. Just trying to redefine the way you tell a narrative game, we want it to have that “irrational” feel to it, but there is a reason why we haven't talked about it, because that's what we did with (Bioshock) Infinite, and we had bad experiences.

We want this to be a whole new experience going into it, totally loosey goosey, just in case if we DO change course with it, people aren't going to be expecting something. There will be no expectation because we haven't said much about it. We don't have to target a broad audience like The team did with “Bioshock Infinite” and it's just less pressure.”

There were alot of little side topics that me and Ken discussed that I just didn't feel needed to be mentioned, and selfishly would like to keep To myself. Because I waited three years to talk To him. Its like getting to talk to your favorite author. Ken Levine is without a doubt my FAVORITE game director, right up there with Hideo Kojima. It is an absolute honor to put this interview on my blog.

Let me tell you that there was a point in the interview where I had a lot of questions about “Irrational games” and “take 2” and “2k” and all these different things that had made me sad about why Ken Probably wouldn't be making any more Bioshock games, but after talking with the dude, and hearing his side (totally off the record) I totally got it and understood it. It made me respect him that much more.

Ken makes games for people who can appreciate abstract ideas. It's not so much the games mechanics, or the graphics, it's the way the game moves you. The way it makes you feel. The way all the mechanics, or the graphics tell the story, that make you feel something.

I've told my friends for several years now that the only way they could ever repeat the bioshock story that Ken directed would be to write a series of books. Not A book. A series of books. That's how complex the story is. A movie could never get it right. A show could never get it right.

All these details, are what have lead me to want to talk to this guy. The only way a story this good could ever authentically be told, was the first way it was conceived as a whole.

That's through a video game.

Is that art? To me it is.

Ken said something to me that made me feel like I was doing exactly what I should be doing.

“Keep trying things. Don't ever give up. Put yourself out there. You reached out to a complete stranger, and really that's how it could all start for you. This business is always changing. Things are always changing, and it's taken me 30 years to get to this point. Just don't quit trying things, because you'll never know what could happen if you do.”

-Ken Levine