Source
r/OCPoetry•
ActualNameIsLana

Genesis

Feedback Received!

#Genesis  

 I spoke to the stones in her garden
 today, the ones arranged
 like peonies and daffodils in concentric
 whorls and placed upon
 mudsand moire pedestals.
 
 
          “I don't think there’s
                    a God anymore”,
 
I trembled uncomfortably,
 
          “or if there ever was,
                    She has lost interest in me”.
 
 
 But predictably, the rocks said דבר
 and so I had my answer.

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She said a thing... | ...and then she said another.

Posted Mar 29, 2017, 6:07 PM UTC · edited

2428
humpersthompson•

This is a really cool piece. I love the idea of using a zen/stone garden to represent something dead pretending to live, and the first stanza does this really well. The swirling imagery creates a sense of life where there isn't any (whorls and mudsand moire work so well). Also the enjambments read great and everything feels very cohesive.

The dialogue works well. It definitely feels defeated and reinforces that first stanza. I think I'm missing something on the gender identity of God though, so if anyone has an idea please come straighten me out.

I had to google the Hebrew of course (being monolingual trash) , but I think it works in this piece because: 1) "Nothing" is such a strong word, 2) Hebrew is the language of the abrahamic religions, and 3) it almost looks like stones overlapping, which gives it a nice visual quality.

The last two lines weren't as heavy to me, however. The lines worked, but I feel like "דבר" should not only be the line break, but also be the end of the sentence. It's the one non-English word, and seemingly the final defeating moment, so I feel like it should be the last word of that sentence.

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ActualNameIsLanaOP•

Some great points there... I'm glad the Hebrew/Aramaic sang through the clutter, and I'm doubly glad that the dialogue felt natural. I'm not great at dialogue, and every time I try it in my poems, it comes like pulling teeth, and I'm never quite sure if I've done it well.

Do you have a suggestion on how to end the piece on the Hebrew? I love the idea, but I think the piece needs the phrase "so I have my response" too. I'd love to preserve both if possible.

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humpersthompson•

You could play around with the wording in the creation story of genesis, where every day begins with "and God said... and it was so". It reads well how it is though, so take my critique with a grain of salt.

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ActualNameIsLanaOP•

I'll give it some serious thought. Again, thank you.

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Tsavich•

I like the changes you've already made since you posted this. The dialogue is so perfect because it seems very real. I think, personally, the ending works just fine to drive the point home. As stated, the changes make it drive better and a little less clunky.

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ActualNameIsLanaOP•

Thanks, Tsavich...This one hasn't gone through as many iterations of the Brütal Edit Machine as I usually do, so I'm still fiddling with some of the details at the point in its life. But I wanted to get some outside perspective on the broad strokes. So I'm really glad they seem to be working. Thank you for spending some time with this today!

1
ArtByBennett•

I really love the meter of this poem and the length. Although I have no idea what דבר means, though I assume it is Hebrew. Interesting also how you gender God as a woman, especially with the Judaic themes

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ActualNameIsLanaOP•

Thank you for the words of praise! Not being bilingual, I'm having to rely on research, including Google translate, and (the always correct) Wikipedia for my information. But near as I can tell, it has several translations.

In Hebrew it can mean "nothing" but also archaically "word" "speech", or "commandment". It can also mean "to lead" in Aramaic. Both/all such definitions suit my purpose here.

Again, Thank you for spending some time with my piece today!

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malki-tzedek•

In Hebrew it can mean "nothing"

That's שום דבר. Google translate is apparently confusing.

By itself, דבר historically and currently means "thing" (davar) or "speak" (daber). In the form דיבור (dibur) it is occasionally used to mean "commandment" (it's usually מצוה).

It can also mean "to lead" in Aramaic.

That's pretty cool. I had to look that one up.

Nice poem, by the way :)

6
ActualNameIsLanaOP•

Thank you for this! If I could upvote you twice, I would. That does help demystify the odd Google translation. I'm fine with it not meaning "nothing" by itself. That's actually better this way. :)

4
humpersthompson•

Also completely changes my critique. That works really well!

2
ldalternate1•

Incredible poem. Very difficult to understand, but rewarding. I would cut a couple words:

  1. concentric -- it's almost a tautology when coupled with whorls. Doesn't add much meaning but is an awkward and ugly word which conflicts with the rest of the beautiful imagery of the stanza.
  2. uncomfortably -- i'm generally not a fan of adverbs. They tell rather than show. Uncomfortably is, like concentric, also quite a chunky word.
  3. predictably -- same as 'uncomfortably'

I would find a way to edit the entire last two lines. It's as if they aren't a punchline, but rather they blunt/cushion the point of the rest of the poem.

Perhaps something like

But the rocks echoed God
In their silence
And they whispered sweet דבר (META: or, instead, the plural 'דְּבָרִים')

I come from a strong Jewish religious background and so this poem struck a chord. I also wonder if this carries any allusion to the story of Moses striking the rock out of anger? Even if your answer is no, I highly recommend you read about it, I think you'd take a lot out of that story too.

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ActualNameIsLanaOP•

  • (1) you're not wrong about "concentric"; I had the same hang ups about it, but it just felt "right" to keep it in somehow. I'll give this one more thought. Maybe there's a better word.

  • (2) I struggle with the reasoning here, mostly because I'm not sure that "beauty" is the objective at this moment. So this I'm slightly less inclined to change.

  • (3) Same response... And also I want to point out that I'm not following the reasoning which claims that adverbs always tell rather than show, by definition. It seems to me that's a bit of an oversimplification​. So again, I'm a little less inclined to follow this advice.

However....

I really thank you for all of the above advice. I can tell it comes from a place of experience, and since I'm here to improve my writing, and I'm willing to do pretty much anything in the pursuit of that goal, I'll give all three of these serious thought. Again, thank you.

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lildice1•

its u/ldalternate1 here

perhaps a better word to use than beautiful is aesthetic. I meant beautiful to include Duchamp's/Modernist/Punk rock's sort of beauty as well. And I'm also very curious about whether you know about the Moses story? Was the overlap in allusions with this poem deliberate?

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ActualNameIsLanaOP•

Yes I think I understand how you're using "beautiful" now. I'm still not sure about it, but I'll give (as I have been giving) your thoughts some serious thought. You may have a point. I guess it will probably come down to whether I think it strengthens or weakens the poem overall when those words are removed. There are several competing considerations here, and aesthetics are only one small part, as I'm sure you understand.

No, the Moses story was pretty far from my mind while writing this, I have to say. Though, I see what you mean about the similarities of some of the details. I was really trying to pull in a modernist/shinto/celtic version of the Biblical Genesis story instead, though not specifically the act of creation. More the garden and leaving that garden. I wanted the poem to read almost like a Zen koan. The whorls were small allusions to womanhood in the Celtic tradition. The stones and mudsand, allusions to a Japanese sand garden often used for meditation. The Hebrew word was meant to introduce an ambiguity of meaning, that the reader could interpret in multiple different ways.

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

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ActualNameIsLanaOP•

Thank you for spending some time with my words!

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Tbk_greene•

This was so much fun to read! My friend is from Israel and thought your use of the word was very cool, especially since דבר has a biblical context.

Outside of that, I think the message of the poem and structure really make the poem what it is. The language seems light but brief, and hold a large contrast with the weight of the topic.

Thanks for the poem! I had a great time reading it.

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ActualNameIsLanaOP•

Oh dude that's amazing... Thank you for sharing your Israeli friend's reaction! :)

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Gummyfail•

This is the hardest I think i've seen you draw from the well of modernism and it works well. No real ideas for improvement from me.

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ActualNameIsLanaOP•

High praise indeed, from someone who seems to swim effortlessly through those waters. Thank you!

I feel like this has opened up new vistas of expression for me, and I'm excited to see what I can find here.

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Gummyfail•

I'm finally trying other pools and the water is weird. I'm excited to see what you pull from the corners!

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superbnovas•

I love this. What I have noticed is that people deal with death in two ways: they become more religious or they become less religious. I like the way you took this idea. I am not totally familiar with the Jewish faith, but I still love it. I especially like the commentary. Thank you for sharing!

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ActualNameIsLanaOP•

I think it's interesting that you saw death thematically here. What caused you to do that?

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superbnovas•

I just saw it as trying to communicate with someone who had passed or was very ill. Looking for answers in anything (Nature, god, etc.) but not finding it.

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helhyms•

Can someone explain the nbsp thing?

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ActualNameIsLanaOPMOD•

Here's a crash-course on how to defeat the Gremlins of Redditus.

  • two spaces at the end of any line followed by the enter key will force a line-break
  • typing the six characters &, n, b, s, p, and ; together with no spaces will force an inline space.
  • combining these two techniques together (typing &, n, b, s, p, ; and then two spacebara and the enter key) will create an "empty" line, which looks like a stanza break.

#example 1:

      this text is indented five spaces

Yields this:

      this text is indented five spaces

#example 2:

this line
is enjambed

Yields this:

this line
is enjambed

#example 3:

this creates a
 
stanza break

Yields this:

this creates a
 
stanza break

Hope this helps!

-your friendly neighborhood mod, u/actualnameislana

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3w4v•

Consider adding those bullet points to the Formatting Help section in the sidebar.

(Strong poem, by the way. The use of enjambment here is effective, as are the allusions.)

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ActualNameIsLanaOP•

Tyvm

2