Source
r/OkCupid•
Redicted

Have you ever had a good outcome dating someone with an occupation you have an ethical issue with?

Last year I met someone IRL with a lot of common interests and a nice connection. Things progressed fast and then I got to know him better. He worked for an infamous military security contractor with with a nefarious reputation. I highly value human rights and justice so I was taken aback and wondered if I needed to walk the moment I learned this. But because I had not connected like this with anyone since my divorce, I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt and get to know him. As it turned to, he was everything you would expect and worse. I was disturbed by some of his stories, and broke it off of this and other reasons equally bad.

Now, I am talking with someone on OKC, lots of important things in common. He tells me his employer is a private for profit prison company (and he spoke highly about his employer). This company lobbies to to lock more people up. As someone who has worked in social services and the criminal justice system, I am disgusted by the scandals involved with these companies including the one he works for. I am pretty sure I cannot proceed forward and don't know whether to ghost (we have not met yet), tell him the reason (I expect a rant or at least defensiveness, no one wants to be rejected bc of their work), or give a chance and see if he might be shining spec of decency in terrible place.

Does anyone have any success stories of meeting someone who works for an employer or in a profession that is incongruent to your values?

Posted Mar 30, 2017, 6:09 PM UTC

3104
Crimson_WideI'll take a Jack and Cock•

It depends how important those values are to you

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RedictedOPCA/F•

I know, I guess I am deluding myself. I mean if he were the janitor there that would be one thing, but he is in admin.

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AlwaysBeTextin•

This isn't romantic, but... I'm a data scientist. A friend of mine works for a tiny marketing company that had just lost its only data guy and asked if I'd help them out part time with a big account they just got. I said no immediately, never learned too many details, but the account was somehow related to getting preteens in Africa hooked on cigarettes. I was stunned he'd want to do something so evil and we're cool now, but it harmed our relationship for about a year. We just don't talk about this.

It seems you have a huge moral problem with what he does, and it appears he isn't likely to stop it anytime soon. It would put an enormous strain on any potential romance, best to avoid.

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RamonasCrackedLips•

Jeez, how do you see him beyond that? I feel like at some point certain things that come to light can't be unseen.

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AlwaysBeTextin•

We were never, and still aren't, great friends, more like casual acquaintances. But for a year or so, I was livid with him...it's now that I won't go out of my way to hang out with him, but enjoy his company in a group setting every few months. If I were forced to interact with him more, it might potentially cause more of an issue. Hence why I'd advise against dating somebody whose job is, in your opinion, unjustifiable from an ethical perspective.

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orgyofdolphins•

You know, i came into this thread thinking I'd tell OP to go for it, that we're all complicit in capitalism and that the important thing is to be good on an individual level, but getting preteens in Africa hooked on cigarettes, that's like comic book villain evil. Good job at changing my mind.

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Invisiblechimp38/M/OR•

Your story reminds me of Bill Hicks' bit on advertising and marketing.

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chilighter35/M Poor man's Jim Belushi•

For me it depends on how successful within the system they are. If they're working for a multi-national fast food conglomerate who has huge corporate interests and does a ton of destructive stuff but they're a floor manager? I don't care. They're a cog in the wheel and probably would prefer to work somewhere else. They're not ethically responsible for the company nor are they likely making a principled decision to take such a job.

If they're the CEO of a terrible company or making a decision to work somewhere when they have other options because they want to get rich by ignoring the way by which they amass their wealth, no way.

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RedictedOPCA/F•

The guy is in upper management...so that made it worse for me.

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chilighter35/M Poor man's Jim Belushi•

Yep. I think you're right to be wary.

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jchiu00330M. fucking floss•

I haven't dated anyone with a morally questionable occupation, but I wouldn't be able to date the 2 people you've described. There is a fundamental difference in ethical values. I'm a firm believer that one simple belief can easily leech into everyday conflicts and we would end up arguing all the time.

I am pretty sure I cannot proceed forward

I would just ghost him. You guys haven't even met yet. If he asks, then you can just respond with "Sorry, I'm just not feeling it."

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RedictedOPCA/F•

yeah, have had couple people I met in person from OKC give me crap about my employer/profession (at the time I was a social worker employed by local government). Both identified as libertarians who hated not only government, but social services. Talk about a fail in the match in system (90% plus) Both seem to have made an "exception" for me, and asked me out again, but I declined. Whether you share the values of your employer or occupation (I happen to), no one wants to be criticized for what they do.

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neverlistentoadvice•

Both seem to have made an "exception" for me

From your post, it sounds like you've already concluded that you'd be doing so by continuing to talk with this guy.

As you've found from experience, that's a genuinely crappy way to find yourself being treated. (Golden rule tends to work for a lot of things.) Just bite the bullet and tell him that you think it'd be an issue. He might respond well, or he might not, and either way that will give you an idea of how to proceed or not.

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RedictedOPCA/F•

I was pretty sure I was walking before I posted this and have not messaged him back since. I was just curious about others experiences with this. I had no idea so many people were on the same page...I was worried I was being too judgmental. I think it is interesting that there is some latitude if the person is not in power. I remember that famous scandal in 70 with Nestle...they had this huge marketing campaign for women throughout Africa to make them believe formula was healthier than breast milk. It was a tragedy on several levels. Besides science knowing breast milk is healthiest, they got women to believe otherwise ("you too can have a fat, healthy, western style baby"). They ended up having to water down the formula due to poor economic conditions. Any nutritional value was also diluted plus the water was contaminated. Babies died.

So a long story...but point being the douche nozzles that created and implemented this strategy are far more nefarious than the guy packing the boxes.

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neverlistentoadvice•

I think it's certainly ok to figure out what you find ethical and date someone only who fits those ethics. I've certainly rejected plenty of women who I've found lacking in those traits.

However...I've also usually found that how someone reacts to people they don't like or really give a damn about is the best way to really get a glimpse into their underlying character. It's something to keep in mind - not just for your own moral sense, but also because often people you do like will notice how you behave.

If nothing else, one thing I think you've learned from this that you probably shouldn't be engaging with anyone that you find questionable. Not fair to you, and not fair to them.

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jchiu00330M. fucking floss•

I identify as a liberal, but their constant complaining about social services/social security/government would be so annoying. If they're so smart and feel so strong about changing our country, then they should shut up and run for government.

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Halexi28/M/Queens -- Regular Sized Rudy•

Not relationship-wise, but I went on a date with a lawyer at Goldman Sachs and she picked up the check, which was definitely a good outcome.

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riggorousmenstrual rage•

what's controversial about being a lawyer at GS?

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2bABeedickalupagus•

what's controversial about being a lawyer at GS?

because they're the elite wall street bank that basically got rich off fucking over all of america?

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riggorousmenstrual rage•

interesting. could you expand?

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RedictedOPCA/F•

yeah for me that Goldman Sachs is in the area of dark grey-to no for me. There was time when I thought I would not date a republican or libertarian (it's ok to down vote), but now I am much more willing to get to know someone on case by case basis.

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Halexi28/M/Queens -- Regular Sized Rudy•

Specifically involved in lobbying against regulations.

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riggorousmenstrual rage•

lobbying against banking regulations, you mean?

eh. the case is fairly air-tight, but my professional opinion is that looser banking regulations is a much less harmful thing than looser environmental regulations, or taking away women's access to birth control, and a bunch of other issues including the dakota pipeline, and i understand that corporate lawyers need to pay off their astronomical student debts.

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Halexi28/M/Queens -- Regular Sized Rudy•

The banking rot goes so far deeper than those issues. People are having their entire financial livelihoods completely destroyed by a lawless cabal of purchased regulators and bankers. The 2008 financial collapse resulted in people getting put out on the street, because the utter lack of oversight allowed sale of homes under false pretenses, THEN the sale of those toxic debts, falsely rated as "safe investments" to middle and upper class Americans whose financial security was depending on the basic managed portfolio products forced on us by companies looking to shirk responsibility for retirement pensions.

COuple that with Goldman's very obvious push to eliminate basic government services (like those you mention in your argument), through no fewer than 7 current and former staffers being part of the current regime, including Bannon (to say nothing of those Goldman employees under Obama), including the "golden cows" like Medicare and Social Secuirty, and yes, a banking lobbyist is far worse than anything else mentioned in this thread.

I get that social justice issues play well for karma on reddit, but without economic justice, these issues aren't going to get anywhere substantial. The growing base of the desperately poor will have their prejudicess exploited as they look for someone to blame for their issues. This is precisely how Trump got elected.

E: meant prejudices, not perceptions.

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RedictedOPCA/F•

I care about these things a lot, so I know I need to stick to my values. I mean I know there are people where it coold be more grey, like a time share salesman which I kind of view as not the most ethical, but they are not violating peoples human rights (IMO as least )

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Another0kcthrowaway25/M/Flerduh•

Yeah, there was a girl who I was seriously attracted to for awhile... Until I learned that she's a leader with It Works.

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2bABeedickalupagus•

I wouldn't bother. He's in it for the money, and you're not. Those are two very different approaches to living life.

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mxpasta29/NC•

Sometimes you make sense

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2bABeedickalupagus•

sometimes negs are exciting

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eleokc23/M/Dallish - sub giant•

No but I'd give it a shot. But it would also depend on what they do for that company. Are they the ones making things unethical or are they just an easily replaceable cog that just goes about his day doing shit every company does?

Sometimes a job is just a job. Ideally I'd not be working for a defense contractor. But it was either this or work for Mick Ds. I picked this.

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RedictedOPCA/F•

Exactly. I was hoping this in the case of the first guy, but he truly reveled in some dirty activities of the company. I am not against military contractors as a rule, probably 1/3 of guys I have met online worked for them (never went anywhere though), its just the first guy above was shady as hell.

The whole prison contracting thing really grosses me out, profiting on locking up humans..and remember that judge, in PA I think, that was caught taking kick backs for sending kids (disproportionately males of color) to a for profit juvenile prison.

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eleokc23/M/Dallish - sub giant•

Yeah if he agreed with the companies views then definitely no. This sounds more like core political incompatibilities rather than just where he works. I also agree. The whole prison system is reaaallly messed up.

I just do pretty basic IT/programming shit here. I'm about as far from working on anything potentially questionable as it gets.

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_skndlous•

One third of your prospects working for a military contractor would indicate that not only you are not against it, but that you have a strong attraction to the type...

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RedictedOPCA/F•

no its called living in San Diego, and military contracting is huge here. edit: https://workforce.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/reports/industry/military_contractor_cluster.pdf

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yinzcityhalf man half amazing•

anything but a pyramid scheme

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hedonism-droneF/Expired•

I dated a professional poker player for years. I understood where he was coming from (we're all consenting adults, they're trying to win money from me just the same way I'm trying to win money from them, competition is not exploitation) but I had serious qualms, particularly when they had a really good night because someone's playing above their level or drunk or emotional and hemorrhaging cash. He understood and respected my qualms, too.

We debated/argued a lot about that and other things, mostly in good spirits. But his moral compass was very different from my own, and it kept getting worse. He'd work with just the worst people sometimes and that was terrible to have in my life, he tried to use a stolen credit card a drug dealer friend of his gave him for stuff when we were together, that sort of thing.

I don't know if it's a success story, exactly, but we broke up and stayed friends and now that he's in his 30s he's in a straight job and thinks that his early-20s self was a minor monster.

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RedictedOPCA/F•

Interesting about the professional poker player. I think of that as a profession I personally would not respect, but not find it an affront to my morals. Strangly "professional poker players" seem to be over represented on line and seek me out, even though I have 0 interest in gambling and the casino lifestyle. I also noticed in avid poker players that I have met in general-they often come across as narcissistic as they all believe they can out smart the system.

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hedonism-droneF/Expired•

I'm surprised you're meeting so many online, I don't think I've ever been approached by one. Maybe it's a location thing? It's certainly wildly less popular than it was 10-15 years ago and I wasn't online dating back then. The guys I knew played online, so no casinos and the "lifestyle" involved late nights swearing at their computer screen. Things did get dicey lifestyle-wise, though, because you had a bunch of 20 year old boys suddenly earning absurd amounts of money without a scheduled job and a boss to keep their feet on the ground. You're probably right that poker players enjoy learning how systems work and how to exploit them! I'm a software engineer myself so I enjoy that sort of talk too and don't consider it narcissistic.

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RedictedOPCA/F•

There are a few casinos around here, but I am sure some do it on line...As far there being so many I am not sure, but I do tend to attract people that are absolutely incompatible with me, so I brought the professionals out of the woodwork.

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Donitsu•

I did once date a girl in a government position. As we all know the government is a greedy piglet that suckles on a taxpayer's teat until they have sore, chapped nipples

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mxpasta29/NC•

I, for one, absolutely hate paved roads and public schools

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Donitsu•

Fire departments are just the worst

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BasketCaseSensitive Phoebe Buffay is my spirit animal. •

It's my right as an American to die in a fire. 🔥

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Donitsu•

Freedom isn't free, yeah there's a hefty fuckin fee... Freedom costs a buck 0 5

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mortys_real_rickI ain't no hipster, but girl I can make your hips stir.•

that got dark

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senescedsweet mountain lamb chop•

Or you could just tell him, "I don't think we're a good match, but best of luck!" and then block him.

That way you're not compromising your morals, you're not potentially trying to make a doomed thing work, and you're not causing conflict by breaking it off from a place of "here's why my morals are right and yours are wrong."

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riggorousmenstrual rage•

I work for an organization that is controversial in certain circles, and tbh I wouldn't want to date someone who so fundamentally disagrees with its values. That said, I've met people who wanted to date me despite it!

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mortys_real_rickI ain't no hipster, but girl I can make your hips stir.•

how controversial?

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2bABeedickalupagus•

i'm thinking something funded by Soros or like the Enterprise Institute

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riggorousmenstrual rage•

no

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riggorousmenstrual rage•

It's controversial to the far left and the far right. Otherwise it's very mainstream.

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2bABeedickalupagus•

so you could be working for pretty much anyone/anything. useful info.

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riggorousmenstrual rage•

Well yes, I'm not about to plaster my employer's name all over the internet.

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mortys_real_rickI ain't no hipster, but girl I can make your hips stir.•

interesting. yeah i mean my pops works for something that would prolly trigger hard lefties. its all so blasé tbh

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riggorousmenstrual rage•

pretty much anything i could do within my professional sphere would trigger hard lefties. i mean, the existence of my field triggers hard lefties. idk.

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mxpasta29/NC•

Earth Liberation Front

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2bABeedickalupagus•

you lil devil you

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poledancingguy•

Despite it?

I'm pretty sure I've guessed the organization you're talking about, and tons of admittedly nerdy neoliberal sellouts would be stoked to date someone who works there.

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riggorousmenstrual rage•

not sure what you're on about

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ambitiousishA: [redacted]/S: [ambiguous]/L: [confidential]•

I mean this is complicated. I'm a grad student working in environmental philosophy, but I live in Houston so I've gone out with a bunch of people in the oil and gas fields. I guess for me I'm able to separate out the people themselves from the toxic ideological/systemic forces working on them. Or at least I try to.

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samowl34/M/Houston•

Hey Houstonite!

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ambitiousishA: [redacted]/S: [ambiguous]/L: [confidential]•

Oh hey! I was starting to think I was the only person repping H-town around here'

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samowl34/M/Houston•

They're a few around, mostly lurkers

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RedictedOPCA/F•

yeah, you've got some shades of grey there. I of course would rather not deal with it though.

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mxpasta29/NC•

I really struggled with this, in the end it turned out to be a 'no' because it was indicative of other aspects of his personality. But he was highly employable, I would never begrudge someone working at a place because they had to.

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RedictedOPCA/F•

See that is it, I would never want to do that, but I also think this guy would have other options...including the public prison system....which is mess too IMO, but not as dirty as the company where he works. I remember ma' man Bernie talking about this company specifically.

edit-typo

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ffwiffo37/m/can•

It's totally a legitimate reason not to see somebody, but in my experience it's tough to tell them why without them getting defensive.

Told two spies (government town) I just couldn't agree with their politics/work details. Neither took it well.

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b3ntlegm/34/Vancouver with English accent•

I have worked with some clients at my old IT firm that I wasn't exactly enthusiastic about. But what you find is that people are usually abstract about the big picture and just do there seemingly innocent job.

So if your morals won't allow you to date somebody who is part of a system you cannot tolerate then you probably shouldn't date him. But don't assume he's a bad person because of what he does.

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RedictedOPCA/F•

but I already do that...

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