Source
r/ELTP•
DaEvil1

DaEvil1's Complains About the League

It's that time of year again. I was originally gonna make a post about this in the mid-season thread since there was discussion there, but at this point I veered far from the original point, so on the off chance that people may have changed their opinion since the last time I aired this, I thought I'd make a thread about dropping the redraft:

I think a lot of the issues with the league of this simply stems from having a redraft from season to season, having the league only really matter in terms of playoffs along with combining teams with majors and minors.

  • Captaining is a headache because you have to control 10+ players, and it sucks to say to someone that they're benched and have to watch their teammates play. Not to mention the effort you have to put in pre-season to avoid counting on getting lucky with your draft. so people choose not to captain
  • Draft stock manipulation obviously happens, and measures are put in place to counter that, but often those measures turn inconvenient for people not manipulating
  • There is little if any consistency from season to season. So in your draft the main thing you need to look out for are players that are ready to play majors immediately so you don't fall completely out of the league. You have a bit more leeway with minors, but essentially it has the same problem. This not only makes the league stale, but it actively discourages a captain to give someone with potential a chance unless they're forced into doing so.
  • If you want to get on a team with your mates, you better know a captain, or suck enough to not get noticed early on.
  • People don't really care about the league. Sure winning the league is nice, but I doubt many people would want to win the league over winning the playoffs. This is natural since winning the league isn't so much about being the best or having the best strats, but having the best draft in terms of players who work well together as soon as possible.

I think that having teams of 4-6 players (that can be supplemented by loans with reasonable regulations) in a more European style league with divisions (I'd say 6-8 teams in top division, 6-8 in 2nd division, and the rest in 3rd to mimic the system we have now) with promotion and relegation, and easy entry for new teams at the bottom tier except towards the very end of a season would make for a more fluid league where people can progress more naturally, either through promotion within the system, or by being noticed by a bigger team as they do well. The league could be scheduled much as it is now with top tier playing on Sundays, 2nd on Mondays and 3rd on Tuesdays

All that being said, I doubt people want to ditch the system that's in place since it's largely been going on unquestioned for the past 3.5 years, but I'm interested in hearing thoughts on this or parts of this.

tl;dr: Redraft makes things inconsistent and captaining hard. Winning the league doesn't matter that much due to the inconsistency. Maybe an option where ELTP is a more continuous league with set teams that doesn't have to redraft every season and multiple divisions with a promotion/relegation system is an option?

Posted May 26, 2017, 12:18 AM UTC

1124
Crisis_AvertedNice-On-Re•

Wouldn't having the same teams and no draft make everything more stale?

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weisbrotif you clean the vacuum cleaner, you become the vacuum cleaner•

you can still have transfers and stuff

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Crisis_AvertedNice-On-Re•

We already have that now.

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OsyTPSkrub Brugge•

We could have the kind where the credits we exchange for the player are actually significant, so that you could let someone go that you think is really good, but the offer is just too good, like in top football transfers.

Don't get me wrong I have a feeling this way of organizing things is overly ambitious, but hypothetically this 'd be cool af.

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hellierBest def GASP s6.5•

I think drafting keeps the game fresh and is definitely one of the cooler aspects of ELTP.

Maybe a system similar to the MLS, that is, you keep 1 or 2 of your star players each season, and the rest go back into a pool.

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ComakipPlymouth Artyle•

##Dave4CommishS10

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theonetruepredatorThe Juker / Roll Madrid•

Sorry but i just do not buy the idea that superteams wouldnt hurt the league by "forcing them to practice more and become better" the concept just does not work when the talent pool is this small. If a team of fat/sherra/sam/dead nan was made or replace nube or green in that team would dominate and the talent just isnt there for anyone to properly challenge them. This is a proper shame, i like the idea of promotion relegation and for minors teams being able to push their way up it sounds great in theory but i just dont think it works when there are only 150 odd players and the very top players are miles ahead of the rest

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OsyTPSkrub Brugge•

Don't rly know how this would turn out in reality, but I personally fucking love the idea of having leagues like we do in football.

Knockout games do have that "big game" feeling though... Will we have a "champion's league"?

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sholatpHammarball IF (Ball Street Traitor (AC Spartag Traitor))•

Like a FA Cup of sorts. Non-League CC teams can enter in a preliminary round

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DaEvil1OP.•

Yeah, I like the knockout aspect as well. I'm not sure if there's a good alternate way to do it to how it's done now, so might be best to just keep playoffs after the regular season the way it is maybe with a team or 3 from the bottom two divisions to mix it up.

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JoltieTurun Balloseura•

Don't rly know how this would turn out in reality, but I personally fucking love the idea of having leagues like we do in football.

It's quite simple, begin the practice of video game clans as they exist in many other multiplayer video games.

Make the first TagPro Clan tournament. 8 clans, 2 groups of 4; top 2 of each group go to semis, then final then Tournament winner.

Depending how many clans we see organically pop up, or how many clans we see develop for the tournament, we can see how viable this idea is.

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OsyTPSkrub Brugge•

ehh, frankly I'm not sure that's what dave was aiming at... could be wrong

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JoltieTurun Balloseura•

It's not the same, but the basic concept of clans with more or less static rosters is the same. If people want to such a static league, they'll all be happy to create clans for a tournament.

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_MonteCristo_AC Spartag•

Let''s not call them Clans though.

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TwoFiveOnesPloffin // Boostin Dynamo•

Regarding superteams, the reason this system works reasonably enough in football is because there are budgets involved, biddings, contracts etc. I don't know too much about it but I think the best way to ensure balanced teams would be to somehow mimic that. How, I don't know.

Also IMO the only reason why people don't care so much about the league is the short amount of games. Not saying it's realistic (maybe, maybe not), but if there were double the matches (home and away) the league would have tons more mobility, close fights for the top three, etc. which would make it a lot more interesting for people. Right now given a few sweeps the league is preeeetty much decided after week 4-5, give or take. Of course, another big factor is how many teams there are. If we had double the mass of top quality players + home and away games the league would be awesome. That's something that we can kinda only hope for though.

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xMJCFender // some american dude•

To start this off, I would really love for this to happen.

Consistent teams, tiers with promotion/relegation, champions league-type stuff and everything just sounds awesome.

But whenever I revisit the idea, isn't it kinda inevitible someone will create a 'superteam' with the 4 best players in the league and just steamroll through? As much as this stops manipulation through the redraft, it also just opens up a whole new door of it. It's kind of hard to stop either way, unless there are some weird rules to somehow prevent this.

Also just keeping players interested for multiple seasons at a time, instead of what it is now, where we only have 1 season intervals. If the a team wins promotion to the top league, and then half their team quits because they're bored of tagpro, then they're kinda fucked. Of course, FA would help and stuff, but that's still a large blow to the team.

As much as I'd love to see this happen, I'd have to see a really fleshed out version of it's format, layout, and rules to see how well it'd really work.

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DaEvil1OP.•

Superteams will happen for sure. But there are a couple of ways to go about it:

1: I personally prefer to let it happen because I believe other teams will rise to the challenge. Having a team dominate for a season or two, forces the other teams to deal with them and eventually the superteams would raise the level of the league.

2: You can do stuff like have an initial draft with captains, restrictions on how many players they can switch out per season etc. This wouldn't prevent superteams in the end, but should make it at least a bit more gradual giving other teams more time to adjust and try to match their level.

3: You could go even more hard in on it and start disapproving unfair transfers, and mandating people leaving a team that's too strong etc. I'm not a fan of this since it can prevent friends from playing together indefinitely and I also think it'll breed a lot of "transfer-manipulation" to get around it.

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xMJCFender // some american dude•

Fair enough.

In the end I kinda hope this goes through, it'd be really cool to see it in practice. PLTP tried, but ultimately failed, of course, but I'd love to see a working model.

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Hologogoloh_is_shit•

But whenever I revisit the idea, isn't it kinda inevitible someone will create a 'superteam' with the 4 best players in the league and just steamroll through? As much as this stops manipulation through the redraft, it also just opens up a whole new door of it. It's kind of hard to stop either way, unless there are some weird rules to somehow prevent this.

I dont see why this is necessarily a bad thing, sure they'd dominate for some time but it would just push everyone else to get better and practice more to beat them

If the a team wins promotion to the top league, and then half their team quits because they're bored of tagpro, then they're kinda fucked.

Im not sure why this would be a problem either, im sure the best players from the lower league would be up for joining the team going up or the best players from the teams that got relegated could jump ship too

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kutrebarRoll Madrid•

there would be a bigger gap between the better and the worse teams, but I'm pretty sure that whatever 4 players you pick, there would be at least 1 or 2 teams with a good chance to do better than them.

is just the kind of league you want to have, one with balanced teams where everyone had a chance to win and is more fair or one that pushes competition and has a higher skill roof. both have pros and cons and I'd be fine with either

3
MatteFFS2Hammarball IF•

But whenever I revisit the idea, isn't it kinda inevitible someone will create a 'superteam' with the 4 best players in the league and just steamroll through? As much as this stops manipulation through the redraft, it also just opens up a whole new door of it. It's kind of hard to stop either way, unless there are some weird rules to somehow prevent this

How about some kind of contract type system that will make it difficult to keep the top 4 best players in one team for longer durations?

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DaEvil1OP.•

What would be offered in these contracts?

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