Battle of the Caps
So, I still keep seeing that WWII Cap is better than OG one. Granted, he has a nice bleed. But aside from that, is he still all that much better after WP nerf and 12.0 patch.
Posted May 31, 2017, 4:15 AM UTC
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My first science r5 was Cap OG. He was a beast in AQ and Quest but useless in AW (yes, largely due to the willpower factor, now arguably resolved). When I r5'd OG I also had WW2 unduped at r4 so I couldn't justify ranking him. A few weeks later I duped WW2 and instantly regretted ranking OG. At 12.0 I took Cap OG to 4 and WW2 to 5 - no regrets. Thats my backstory.
Had them both at r5, my thoughts...
OG: -doesn't rely on buffs but sig increases at lower health so you do get beat up a bit for max benefit from it. But he's a workhorse and can run a long (selective) boss fight at next to no health -good synergy with classic champs -reliable stun-roll (I feel like this is reduced post 12.0) -still not great in AW - even if it's marginal, fatigue still heals up on willpower
WW2: -that bleed tho -synergy is less broad but he has common OG synergy with some champs (like Crossbones or WS) -that bleed tho -yes, he does rely on the opponent procing a buff but they're almost ALWAYS under a buff in AW and in many quests. -frequent stun on L1
Side by side, those may look really similar, but I can't emphasize enough how much I love that bleed.
For me, WW2 for the win.
7
Hard to compare the bleed really as it is total 3250 damage with weak sp itself to apply it sp2 from og dealed more overall damage. 7k overall for og more pending crit 5k overall with ww2 pending crit and having dw. Both can do more if you crit. Ww2 with ticking bleeds gives the illusion he is dealing more overall but og did total more. Plus higher stun chance 30% with additional 40% if fatigue is applied. Only legit argument I have heard for ww2 is prestige and safeguard fights but with pacify mastery og and stun lock every hit has 30% chance to bypass it anyway to even it out.
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Valid points!
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Don't get me wrong both are awesome to have on your roster I just prefer og with his syn as added bonus. But ww2 without factoring in syn just one for one is better in aw because the extra damage you can deal is absorbed by will power.
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Yeah I agree with what you said. I don't worry as much about synergy since diminishing returns since it's not as effective to build crit or attack teams. But yeah, I agree - I used OG, IM, Ultron and BW for my SW crit team.... it was great.
One thing I should have also said regarding WW2 L2: if you run DW mastery that can make up a lot for a weaker L2
I still like them both. I just give the edge to WW2
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But just how good is WWII's bleed? Didn't see you mention it anywhere. Lol. Thanks for this.
I think I might r4 my unduped OG one for AQ whilst I get WWII from arena in July. I guess I'll awaken that one and use the sigs on him. For now, my war team is set with Quake so, wasn't planning to bring him to war. Haven't seen OG much in war, tbh.
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Depending on masteries and such a 550 cap has about a 500 per tick bleed. 700ish with class advantage.
4
That bleed tho... Lol
I have an r5 Quake too and I put her on defense. WW2 is a constant on my attack team.
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She can be a pain in defense as well. Where have you found her to be more effective in defense?
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She's been killing it for me on node 52. Also does well on stun immune nodes.
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Its like Red Mags vs White Mags. Sig is better, WWII has bleed, and he just looks more like a superhero
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OG has higher base stats and doesn't rely on sig to block well in general. He also does not rely on bleed so his L2 does way more raw damage against any champ. The caps are more or less equal, unlike the mags.
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Ok. I have both and it's just like I described.
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Red mag is superior to white mag only because of sig. Which cap is better is based on situations because they have quite different stats and abilities. How is that even a comparison to the mags? Maybe you are just generalizing because you haven't used both caps extensively.
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Sigh. WWII doesn't proc WP for one. Even though it's not as big an issue after the nerf, it's still 1 point for WWII. WWII sig is slightly better - the same way between Mags hence the comparison. WWII causes bleed and has a chance to stun, OG Cap just stuns. And His outfit is better. #BOOM
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Yes.
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Care to elaborate a bit as to why?
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??? The reason hasn't changed. OG Cap needs to lose health to get more BP. WW2 Cap gets more BP for enemies with buffs. So you can choose someone who needs to get slapped around to gain block proficiency or someone who gets a better BP against enemies with multiple buffs (which is common in war and quest). Which one would you like to use?
6
Yes. Bleed.
2
Yes because WW2 is more balanced if you prefer either an attack or defensive play style, or both. His bleed was decent before Willpower got nerfed, now great post-WP nerf. Bleed immune opponents aren't a concern, do his L3 to rely on stun.
OG leans toward a more defensive play style, other than stun he has nothing that would improve his damage, even Colossus gets increased SP damage with his armor buffs.
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OG cap got a lot of buffs direct and indirect. Cap ww2 is still slightly better, but if i had a 5 star duped cap, i would max him over 4 star ww2 cap.
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His Sig ability is much better and doesn't require you to take damage before it kicks in. And the bleed is a huge deal.
But his sig does require buffs where og doesn't. I prefer og because of stun lock and he is great against all where as ww2 isn't so handy vs bleed immune. Personal preference really both are great ww2 only real reason he is rated higher to most is his prestige is tons higher than og.
How can you stun lock with OG when the max chance to proc stun (with my R3) is 42%? WWII can stun on L1 as well with 35% chance.
As for requiring buffs, a ton of nodes in AW add buffs to the opponent. Including the boss which can proc over a dozen buffs giving you 100% perfect block for the whole fight. That's hugely valuable.
The only thing I can see OG has over WWII is 10% higher base perfect block chance but that seems like peanuts compared to everything else if you ask me.
Mine is r5 so 30% chance with additional 40% with fatigue. He is a stun machine. Dorm is immune to bleed no real buffs happening in aq I can safely use a lvl 1 revive if needs be and play the Parry game on every single champ in game or on map. Plus og has better syn pair him with sim get 14% crit rate for your wol or whoever.
Oh and forgot to mention the bleed damage is an illusion. At r5 it is 3250 damage plus you deal roughly 1k damage for sp itself. So 4250 total damage you will get it over 5k with deep wounds. Og sp2 is 7k right off the bat. More damage no waiting.
Didn't know OG's SP2 did that kind of damage. Will have to test.
This
While you make a valid point on the sig front, OG does have a higher base bp than wwii. But I do see what you mean.