Zero Punctuation Grand Theft Auto IV
escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials...Posted May 14, 2008, 4:05 PM UTC
47133
escapistmagazine.com
He's spot on about the "man dates."
Why, with so much of the game being near perfect, did they include this mechanic? It wouldn't even bother me if it weren't for the fact that they have a habit of pestering you right before you start a mission and if you turn them down, you lose standing with them, which means you'll have to man date them even more to get whatever special ability they have.
Mercifully, you can turn off your phone, but even then they'll eventually get cranky and you'll still lose influence. Also, if you play for awhile with your phone off, it seems like they'll suddenly all call in a series at once when you turn it back on.
Your best bet is to use a cab, which lets you basically teleport around the map for money, and knock the dates out of the way relatively quickly.
28
What are you talking about? GTA IV is perfect 10/10!
But seriously, I agree with you. From the moment I started the video I was waiting for him to rail on the man dates. What an awful feature. Every time, and I mean every. single. time. I take a break from missions to just run around and do my own thing, some deuchebag calls me and wants to play a crappy minigame with them. Oh, and drive them back as well. Terrible mechanic.
Not to mention that the combat is shit. But then again, what GTA hasn't had shitty combat. It's tradition. Don't get me wrong, the cover system is generally an improvement, but it still much more frustrating than Gears of War's cover system.
10
For me, I think it's the auto-aim and the indestructible trees that bother me most. Sure, I know you can turn off auto-aim, but it's just so useful sometimes. But the fact that I'd really just prefer to shoot someone in a car to get them out of the car cannot be done, since I'll always be aiming at some pedestrian no matter what I try. So between missions and screwing around in the city, I guess one could simply pause, go to the menu, turn off auto-aim and then back on for a mission, but that's way too many non-fun things for me.
Also, I do admit guilt for the indestructible tree phenomenon, as I am a poor driver. However, there's no way in frickin' hell that I'd be able to effortlessly knock over every lamppost and fire hydrant in the city at 15mph and still not be able to cause a single splinter of wood to pop out of a tree I've hit with a 2-ton truck.
As far as man dates go, I have no problem with them. As long as you take a cab to whizz around and get people where they want to go, it'll go pretty quickly.
Has anyone seen the cost of ammo in the gun stores? It's as if they compensated for the elevated gas prices! A grenade for $500? A couple sniper rounds for $800? Ouch. Oh, and speaking of gas, do any cars in Liberty City ever run out of gas?
7
do any cars in Liberty City ever run out of gas?
SHHH
Game developers might be watching. You're like that kid in class who asks if there's homework at the end of the day. What're you going to suggest next, videogame doing-your-taxes?
25
Forza 2 already did it.
4
You could run out of gas in Top Gear for the SNES.
1
For me, I think it's the auto-aim and the indestructible trees that bother me most.
This kind of illustrates the problems inherent in these "open" games. The more closely they try to mimic reality - a goal which will never be reached - the more the things they don't mimic stand out.
We'd have no problem with indestructable poplars if there were many other indestructable obstacles. Instead, that detail stands out because in the "reality" of the game, their invulnerability makes no sense.
I can't help but think people are eventually going to abandon this style of game as an evolutionary dead end, especially when fundamentally, if they ever actually succeeded, they'd have something every bit as exciting and adrenaline-pumping as... real life.
As your comment about running out of gas would support, btw. Can you imagine anything less fun than having to periodically take time out from your man dates to go pump gas in the car? Maybe you could bitch at passers-by about the price of it while you do so.
And next up: Grand Theft Grocery Shopping! After all, what kind of Russian emigrant doesn't know how to cook?
20
I think they can keep pushing the metaphor for a very long time, the key to making it a game is that 1) You aren't forced to do mundane things and 2) You can do insane things without any guilt or consequence.
Basically, the more you introduce mundane choices, the more entertaining the jackass choices are.
5
Yeah, I do agree that it's reaching the limits of its evolution as this particular style of game. I think that in pointing out the gas problem, the titanium trees, and other minor issues, the main idea I had was that everyone touts this game as perfectly realistic. You hit the nail on the head in that the only thing that could get more real would be real life. I mean, sure, they could make a game where the cops actually pulled you over for driving on the wrong side of the road or knocking over a lamppost just like in real life, but that wouldn't be fun. Maybe the perfect 10/10 given across the boards is indicative that fun and reality have been mixed in a pleasant amalgam of juicy goodness and that developers should move to new game formats. Seriously, if anyone tried to make a game where I'd have to buy gas, eat three meals a day, go to the bathroom, sleep 7 hours a night, and every other minor necessity just to make it all more 'real', then I would just turn off the game and go to my real life.
2
Two words: Harvest Moon
2
We'd have no problem with indestructable poplars if there were many other indestructable obstacles.
Personally, it bothers me that lampposts are so easy to knock over. If you hit one of these in a real car, even a very big car, you will not keep cruising like nothing happened. I'm willing to forgive some items being indestructible, but the weak-ass lampposts, fire hydrants and mailboxes throw into sharp relief the absurdity of the trees.
It smacks of a half-implemented game feature.
1
But the fact that I'd really just prefer to shoot someone in a car to get them out of the car cannot be done, since I'll always be aiming at some pedestrian no matter what I try.
On the 360, pulling the left trigger down only partway draws your weapon but doesn't auto aim.
13
same on ps3.
2
[deleted]
1
You can turn off auto-aim on the 360 just by pulling the trigger half way, only until about three quarters down does auto-aim engage.
The reason trees are indestructible is knocking over something with as complex geometry as a tree will look like shit unless every branch is breakable which is a bit too CPU intensive, and it would ruin the realistic look of game if not done correctly.
8
I've hit a (small) tree in my friends 64' Mustang. They're fucking tough too!
2
Has anyone seen the cost of ammo in the gun stores? It's as if they compensated for the elevated gas prices! A grenade for $500? A couple sniper rounds for $800? Ouch. Oh, and speaking of gas, do any cars in Liberty City ever run out of gas?
Especially when you do Bruce's carjacking missions and get, at MOST, $1500 for a fucking CAR. Is a CAR worth less than three grenades?
4
Hmm, might be the damage done to the car, even very minor stuff. I've gotten 5k for a car that I didn't even touch anything with (other than the wheels touching the road obviously), although maybe it was because it was a nice car and pays accordingly?
5
if you get all your guns and ammo from little jacob you save like 30-40% or so.
2
He sells it?
2
I think it's the auto-aim and the indestructible trees that bother me most. Sure, I know you can turn off auto-aim, but it's just so useful sometimes.
Hold the trigger down half way, and you don't go into auto aim.
2
Bitch, bitch, bitch...
-4
There is no punctuation in the title. This is the first time that the title has been accurate.
25
Don't know why you were downmodded, you made me laugh. Thanks.
3
I feel fucking cheated!
0
blame MaximumBob, he is now my mortal enemy
1
I hate the fact that the RUN button is the same as the ANSWER button. On more than one occassion I have been sprinting away from the cops only to have the phone ring and have it be automatically answered, slowing my pace to a crawl. Sure, I can hang up, but it's seriously annoying.
22
HOLY FUCK YES. After the bank heist, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD, surrounded by cops trying to find cover, my dude starts calling the other dude on the phone. All I can do (because I wanted to see how the conversation went) is walk around all calm being sprinkled with bullets acting like I don't give a shit because I got a phone call to make.
32
That sounds kind of funny, actually.
13
Yeah, like 20 years after shooting yourself in the balls it's funny looking back, but during shooting your marshmallows off you curse like a sailor.
6
Agreed. and it sucks that you can't get into a car while talking on the phone. That would help a lot.
7
GTA IV is really an 8/10 but no reviewing site has the balls to come out with it.
Cons:
- Graphics are nice, but painful to look at due to lighting issues.
- Man dating is a complete waste of time (Someone let me know if there is some benefit?)
- I can do three donuts trying to make a 90 degree turn if I tap the e-brake.
- There really isn't anything that cool to find exploring. Landing on many rooftops in a helicopter yielded nothing. A few random weapon drops found, but nothing really usable to pick up on the way(Grenades in the middle of downtown in the construction area is nice though)
- Your money is good for taxi rides, and that's about it. It's pretty easy to hold onto your weapons so you really only need armor every now and then for $500 it isn't much of a hit on the bank.
- Removed all RPG stats elements.
- Removed player owned properties.
- Removed gang wars. While it obviously couldn't be the LA county style gang fights from San Andreas, SA at least gave you a way to change the dynamic of the city without being in a mission. Everything in GTA IV is either a mission or a date.
- The sandbox feeling isn't nearly as good so wandering around isn't nearly as fun. Listening in on phone calls of pedestrians gets boring after the second one, so you can go back to the apartment and watch in-game tv, or browse the in-game internet.
Pros:
- Everything from GTA IIIs, but prettier.
- Targeting and cover system is great.
- Story line is well written.
15
There's no player-owned properties? So what besides weapons can I spend large amounts of money on?
6
Hookers and lap dances.
3
Meh. So much less satisfying than in real life.
3
You amass hundreds of thousands of dollars to have a really big number on your stats screen and that's about it. You would notice no difference if you kept $40,000 on hand vs $400,000.
1
Once you become friends you get very useful bonuses. Your brother gives you free taxi rides which teleport you across the city and some other guy provides you with remote detonating cars, which is quite fun.
As for the donuts, learn to use analog control. What do you expect when you get into a muscle car and floor it? This is not a con...
If you pick on the wrong person a gang will back them up.
4
The taxi rides sound pretty nice. Does it take a long time for the car to show up? I don't mind paying $50 for transport across the city because I don't have much else to spend my money on, but if I'm stranded in some taxiless area a fast pickup would be nice.
And the remote detonating cars sound cool. Any use in missions? Worth it or just a fun toy?
2
yes it takes a good thirty seconds, but if you are leaving a bar, like on a date, some interesting conversation can happen in that thirty seconds. They are good for getting around long distance and drunk driving, not for a get-away.
2
I pretty much exclusively use taxis for drunk driving, it's great.
1
Hmm, for me most of your cons aren't really a big deal, or like in the case of RPG stats, I'm actually glad they got rid of that.
I have to agree about the graphics though, sometimes it looks cool and sometimes it's just wrong. I think they must have mostly play tested it on a very particular monitor in a very particular environment that most people just can't replicate.
3
The money thing is annoying, considering you get $250,000 from a single mission and I'm not even %50 through and I have near $400,00 -- there is nothing to use it with.
Taxi rides are usually around $30 if you skip, food is $1 or $5, the most I've spent on a gun is $5000, ammo is incredibly hard to run out of and is cheap any way, etc.
The only thing I regularly purchase is body armour and that's $300 and can last a few missions, missions which throughout I've probably gained another $25,000.
1
It's still more fun than most games that get a 10/10, longer too.
0
GTA IV is really an 8/10
Really? According to who? You? Why are you so much smarter than anyone else?
-4
To me personally, GTA4 is an 8.5/10.
And when it comes to what I like, the only opinion that matters... is mine.
2
Getting a little cranky someone isn't fellating the game you spent your entire allowance on?
The game is good. Might even be great. It certainly isn't perfect.
1
No I think he's just mad that guy panning this game just doesn't know what he's talking about (like you!). I'm not going to say this game is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but unless you take video game ratings more seriously than feeding yourself (ITS NOT DOING MY TAXES SO IT NOT PERFECT SO IT NOT 10 LOLOLOLI LIKE POSTING ON MESSAGE BOARDS), GTA has to be up there with the best of the best. Either every game is an 8.5 for you at most, or your just a depressing depressing person who can't enjoy anything popular. As a smart person once said, everyone's entitled to their opinion, except dumb ones like that.
-2
Well I love GTA IV. I've been playing about 4 hours a day. Looking at metacritic, the regular old users agree with me that the critics overrated it.
Critics 99/100 Users 8.2/10
Critics are massively pushing a game that just doesn't deliver on their promises.
It isn't the game of the year. It isn't a genre/generation/whatever defining release.
GTA IV is not the Quake or Half Life or Diablo or Starcraft of today.
It's good or great, but not near perfect and certainly not 99/100. 90/100 would be pushing it.
The only killer new features this game introduced are browsing the in-game internet and making cell phone calls. I'm calling it like I see it and I'm near the end of the game.
1
What annoys me the most about GTA4 is the really dark areas where you can't see a damn thing and someone is shooting you.
10
You, that's a kind of funny advantage that PC gamers have: they can turn the graphics down.
Stupid HDR-addicted game studios.
14
Driving under the rails in the daytime (spotted shadows) is suicidal.
4
Drove me crazy too. Got to a point where I was in the parking garage by the airport at night, and I literally couldn't see a damn thing. Went to the video settings in the menu and boosted the brightness & contrast by about 50%. It makes for some bright spots in the daytime, but it isn't as annoying as trying to get around in the dark.
3
I just did the same thing, it just makes the textures look horrible.
1
If you have an HD TV w/HDMI cable the game looks fucking great with few dark spots. Just so ya know...
3
It is hooked up with hdmi. They just went too far with the lighting.
0
It's fine for me, but I can see how that might be annoying.
1
As someone pointed out in the comments you can actually write a letter (email) to your mother in the game. :-D
10
Totally unrealistic.
9
Well thank the fuck god someone has allowed the world to see this is at most a 7 out of 10 type of game. I don't even know why this pissed me off so much but with all the goddamn hype and "10 out of 10!" and "5 Stars!" and other similar bullshit but it did. Doesn't take a fucking rocket scientist to know that at the most it would be a 9 and that was before I even picked the game up. How the hell is a game going to be a 10. That's perfection. Something rarely seen in todays games just because of the complexity of them especially in a game that's as free roaming as GTA. Glad to see people took Rockstars cock out of their mouth long enough to realize "Holy crap, i'm sucking cock here".
7
[deleted]
13
Here's an interesting data point: on the Metacritic page for Grand Theft Auto 4, the critic score is 98--down from 99 when first released--and the user score is 8.3. The users seem to have a better idea of the game's value than the critics do.
2
Call me paranoid, I think that either Sony bought the critics (just did it subtly this time - they learned from Kayne & Lynch) or else it was that whole "we're going to fly you to San Francisco and lock you in a hotel room with nothing to do but play GTA4" review style that they forced on everyone.
0
At most a 7/10 game? You must have a very unhappy life as you are obviously a VERY hard to please person...
0
I love the game don't get me wrong. My issues are pretty much the norm it looks like. The man dates are terribly annoying. Little Jacob hates me because he calls when I'm on the third island about to start a mission and I tell him to fuck off. Then I drive in broad day light undera bridge and can't see a single car ahead of me or a target to shoot at. Lastly, I wish that you could save more cars or modify them like Saints Row. The cars are the most fun part of the game and I can't do anything but steal 2 of them and park them in my spot. Other then that I will say I am addicted/ havn't played XBL yet
6
Cheat: Tell him ok, then call him RIGHT back and tell him the plans are off. No penalty!
8
Once Little Jacob wouldn't leave me alone on a man date, as in the game never gave instructions to take him home after the man date and so he wouldn't leave me alone.
So we went from Cluckin' Bell to do some pool, reasoning that the "take me home" instructions would appear after that. Then we went all the way to the safehouse in Bohan (as I thought of trying to save the game and just quitting, but it wouldn't let me). We then went to the roof of the building across the street from the safehouse and I climbed on the ledge and started to walk around. Eventually Jacob jumped off the roof and kinda died until I got a call a few minutes later to drive him home from the hospital.
At least the man date was over.
3
[deleted]
6
Anyone remember Crazy Taxi?
5
No, just you.
7
wont play for me, gets about 1minute30 in then switches to a fucking football advert and stops Lame.
3
TOUCHDOWN THURMAN THOMAS
1
Good review. Also, on an interesting note, I watched the whole thing with some house music playing from another tab. But, I didn't realize it, and though it was part of this video. After realizing it, and shutting it off, I rewatched part of the video, and it wasn't as good.
Note to dude, add house music under these vids.
2
Side note, this is the music that was playing...
2
I tried it, it kinda worked but not really. Music is too "dark." Good though.
2
What if you don't like House music?
What if Drill N Bass is your thing? Or metal?
In my opinion, House music sucks.
-3
The whole "let's go to a strip club" thing is pretty annoying indeed. Going to a bar is a little more fun because of the resultant drunk mode, though.
All in all, GTA IV is a pretty damn good game. It's kept me entertained for 40 to 50 hours so far and I'm not halfway through.
2
Holy shit, I played drunk mode for the first time yesterday, that's hard as hell!
9
The only thing that annoys me about drunk mode is that cops will pull you over even when you haven't done anything. If you're sober, you can blast down the wrong side of the road, through a red light, and into an oncoming car... and a cop sitting at the red light will do nothing. But if you've been drinking and you swerve (which is unavoidable), the heat is on.
Maybe they just wanted to discourage drunk driving? I dunno.
6
What's amazing is that MADD still thinks it somehow encourages drunk driving.
15
Not just amazing, but a sad indicator of how prejudiced some people are towards GTA IV, undoubtedly as a result of the uninformed media hype.
I'm around half way through the game and there have been dozens of anti-alcohol and drug messages. Almost everybody you encounter has serious problems that are related to substance abuse, that they tell you about or somebody else points out. It's reaching cliché proportions.
2
Actually one thing that REALLY impressed me about this game is the mission where you have to kill either Dwayne or Playboy X. It's not entirely revolutionary, but you get the impression that your choice ultimately has consequences down the line.
I wonder how much that decision really affects the game.
2
That kind of shit has been there in RPGs for years...
10
Squirtle, Charmander, or Bulbasaur?
8
I don't want to give it away the results of the choice (I chose the better one, luckily.) But you're way overselling the impact the choice has on gameplay.
Pretty much ZERO.
2
From what I've heard you either get money or another place in Algonquin depending on the choice you make there. I think what makes it interesting is that from a moral standpoint neither choice is really a "good" one.
1
Actually if you don't kill the first guy (Ivan), you get missions from him later. more info.
1
There are quite a few choices you can make after the Playboy/Dwayne choice, and they are much more important...
1
Like which brother to kill? Yeah, that really mixed things up. /sarcasm
Closer to the end of the game there are some choices which affect the ending, but after it all you're still playing a linear plot. I'm afraid it'll be as bad as KOTOR where you could choose the light or dark ending in the last moments of the game, ignoring all your previous choices.
2
Spot on, as always.
1
I recently purchased Turok. It's a terrible game. I thought "Hey, maybe I should check out the Zero Punc review" I go to the site and sure enough there is a review there for Turok. A very poor review, which I had already seen! He was so spot on with Turok being a horrible game, he didn't even review the game itself. Just FPSs in general and how Turok did all the bad things you don't want.
It was so general to FPSs that I completely forgot it was about Turok. What a waste of $60. Yahtzee really does a great job. Just wish I remembered the Turok review before buying it.
2
There is a write a letter to your mom mission... HAHA
1
I too just watched it, ramblerambleshitcockrambleramblecaaars.
0
Anyone else hearing static while the video is playing?
-3
I keep hoping that people will use this whole situation with GTA IV and its "perfect" reviews to finally speak up and demand some goddamn standards and integrity from the entire video game press.
Instead, I can't help but figure in another couple weeks, Hideo Kojima is going to start waving his shiny cock around and it's going to be soooooo blinding that everyone's going to forget all about GTA4 and start talking about how it's actually MGS4 that's the perfect 10. (rather than Kojima's cock, the rating of which I am not at liberty to divulge)
Yahtzee? Is that you?
Sadly, no.
I completely agree. I asked a friend what was different about the new GTA. He stopped to think a little, and all he could come up with were small details; there was not a single game changing difference. Sure, the game is fun, but when you fault other fun games for the myriads of flaws found in this one, yet you ignore them here, something is wrong.
I actually haven't been all that enthused about GTA4 for months for exactly that reason. Take away the shiny graphics and the majority of the improvements are ones that should have damn well been taken care of several games ago. (Better pedestrian AI, better gun combat controls, etc)
And while it's a small point, the radio stations frankly kind of seem like a step backwards. Yes, there's more of them, but they don't seem as well-written or thought-out (or with as good tracklists) as the radio stations in previous games, especially Vice City. (which may stem from Lazlow's involvement apparently being scaled back)
Even though it is without a doubt a very good game, even great, there's just no excuse for the giant media-publisher circlejerk that went on for the last month before it came out.
I was about to step up to the defense, but then realized I would be defending a fucking video game.
There will always be those who hate on Kojima for pretending that he's a film director rather than a video game designer. From the previews I've seen of MGS4, that trend will likely continue. I doubt it will get a 10/10.
Too late. http://forums.n4g.com/m_127991/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#127991
Yeah, but that's the "official" playstation magazine...it's like Smash Bros Brawl getting a 10/10 from Nintendo Power.
Except Nintendo Power is owned by Nintendo. OPM isn't.
Nintendo Power actually very rarely gives out perfect 10s, if I recall correctly.
It may not be perfect, but It is a very technically impressive game with a lot of attention to detail in not just the environment but the game mechanics and social interactions. It certainly deserves a 10/10 even if most the gameplay is similar to gta3 with better graphics. The devil is in the details.
The details consume most of the time of game development and add the least amount to the gameplay. Perhaps this is a bad thing for profits, but anyone who invests a lot of time into a single game will definitely appreciate it. And even if you only play GTA4 for a few hours the depth is apparent even if it is never explored. This adds greatly to the overall immersion and "feel" that serious gamers crave.
Um, most rational people would consider 10/10 to imply perfection. Hence the common English expression, "A Perfect 10."
The fact the very first words of your post are "It may not be perfect" kind of undermines your entire argument.
Oh, I guess you are totally right. I'm sure that's why they've never given out a 10/10 before because there has never been a perfect game. I'm sorry I suggested corrupting the mathematical certainty of the ten-point system and the logical infallibility of the English language.
(sigh)
Fanboys...
I guess, if you definition of perfect is "mediocre slapped-in improvements of near-zero or negative value". A 10/10 for a sequel has to be something truly awesome, like from Metroid to Super Metroid, or maybe TFC to TF2, but even that is hard because TFC was already a damn good game.
I always thought that Quake 1 Fortress was better than TFC, but likely that's my nostalgia talking.
Metroid or Super Metroid - a game where you collect items to unlock new areas. Sequel has better graphics.
TFC or TF2 - a FPS with balanced classes. Sequel has better graphics
TF2 improved a lot more than graphics. They made the game easier to play and adapt to, resulting in a game that's more accessible and more fun to a larger audience.
i will agree, but when you compare GTA to the rest of the games out. it is above and beyond. they made a good game, and added 100s of easter eggs for 'sandbox' appeal. MSG4 is gonna crush it tho. ooooh i cant wait. who needs easter eggs when you have the easter bunny right?
Can you name two titles that have previously received such wide acclaim? Probably not, which is why at a given moment you can make such a claim but it isn't backed by anything.