Why do people think that seeing gays in public would mean they have to explain homosexuality to their kids, and so what if it did?
Posted Jun 6, 2008, 3:25 AM UTC
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I always assumed it was because they think if their kids do find homosexual feelings in themselves at some point, they're more likely to deny it to themselves if they are never made aware of how normal it is.
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In which case, one might even go so far as to say that the current generation of gay people is doing a great service to the next generation by normalizing homosexuality.
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Saving lives, even. I have no statistics (and I doubt there could be any accurate ones) but I bet there are fewer and fewer gay teens committing suicide each year.
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I can see the surveys now:
- Are you a faggot/dyke?
- Have you killed yourself yet?
LOL
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I'm going to need a minute to climb on to my soap box...
I am the child of a gay parent and I've gotten into this debate so many times. The worst debate was in a college class where we were arguing whether or not those books, "Heather has two mommies" and the other one about a kid with two dads should be read to kids in kindergarten. The people I debated against were saying that these books encourage homosexuality, but that's not their intention at all. These books were created to help hetero parents explain the situation to their kids in a gentle, positive light.
Kids are fucking harsh. If they aren't told that this type of family exists, they're going to torture that one kid who has gay parents.
I grew up thinking my life was not out of the ordinary and people who are homosexual are just like everyone else. It hasn't made me gay; it has just made me appreciate how lucky I am to have parents who helped me understand how difficult other people can make your life when you're different. My mom is an immigrant, my dad is gay. I'll be 30 next year, I'm straight and I'm doing well.
Also, I wish people understood that treating homosexuality like it is forbidden will only make their kids more curious, and potentially treat their lifestyle like it is less significant than the hetero lifestyle. Hence, all those stupid girls who make out with other girls in college. (The term is LUG – Lesbian Until Graduation)
Also, I know a lot of people who are "ok" with gays, but when I talk about my friend Heather, who is married to Jen, those same people freak out.
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I figured this would be a blood bath of a conversation, just look at all these well thought out paragraphs of oppinions writen like facts. beautiful
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Why did you think it would be a bloodbath?
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it's a contraversal topic with no right anwser, just strong opinions. Although at the same time, the people on reddit is not a fair representation of the whole human population.
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That's a cop out. That's like the news having on someone from the NAACP and then having someone on from the KKK for "balance." The right answer is that people should be free to lead their lives as long as those lives are not physically interfering with the lives of others. By your argument, fascism, communism, Islamocentrism, Christian Rapturism/Dominionism are all just "strong opinions," and we can't look a would-be tyrant in the face and say no, you are not allowed to tell others how to live.
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I agree with you on your first point. but I would not put fascism, communism... in the same group, because those actually physically interfere with the lives of others.
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I would think it'd be something I'd want to explain and talk about as soon as it can reasonably be brought up.
Hell, if you're afraid that they'll end up gay themselves, being secretive about it and uncomfortable is just as likely to pique their curiosity as it is to protect them.
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But the same people who object to homosexuality think that not talking about hetero sex will keep their kids from trying that.
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I somewhat agree with your point. As offensive as it might be to "real" gays, there are definitely some angsty teenagers who will "turn bi" just to piss off their parents. I guess accepting whatever they do decreases their motivation to do it.
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Lord forbid people should have to be honest with their children. Kids would actually prefer honesty over that having to deal with mom and dad becoming uptight and uneasy. Parents need to understand that they can be honest about sexuality without "scarring" a child and that scarring usually only occurs when the parent becomes uneasy or deals with an issue improperly.
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When did you first explain sex to your kids? Not flowers and bees, but penises and vaginas and the pleasure of an orgasm?
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my parents were pretty open with me about it, once when i was maybe 4 or 5 i asked the question, and so they began giving me the talk, penis/vagina/orgasm/ovulation/babies and all. bout halfway through, i was all "um... thats weird. I'm gonna go play now, bye"
i think being honest and open with your kids is the best option. if they are afraid to ask you about stuff they may get misinformation elsewhere. i cant tell you how many times in middle and high school i had to correct my friends false beliefs about the human body and reproduction. from the girl who thought babies actually grow in a bubble in your stomach (you poop them out, the pussy is just for sex!), to all the guys who thought girls peed out of their vaginas. i mean... seriously?!
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I really do want to be honest and open; the scene from Kinsey where he's discussing his daughter's sexual relationship at the dinner table comes to mind.
However, it's certainly not easy, and anyone with kids probably isn't claiming that.
As per my other comment regarding public nudity, there are ideas one might not want a child to know, knowing how children are. If we intimate that nudity has some power over people, it may give her the idea that she can use that to control others.
As is, we just say it's private and try to leave it at that.
Honestly, if it were just me, I'd probably be a hell of a lot more frank, but I do appreciate my wife tempering my responses. One of her friends recently related a story wherein her daughter implored her mother to "put a man's penis in her vagina so she could surprise daddy with a baby when he comes back!"
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well, yes, i should have said, be open in the right context. usually, a short explanation is sufficient. kids ask a lot of questions, they dont always to want full details, just an answer to their curiosity.
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When the issue first came up with our kids we simply said, "Different people express how they love each other in different ways. When you get older we'll discuss it more. But not today....right now we're here to enjoy the ballgame."
You can deal positively with the issue of love while deferring the issue of anatomy and sex to a later date.
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Because kids have asked, "What are those two (wo)men doing?" and the parents are afraid to answer?
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Like it is anymore difficult to answer that than, "What is that man and women doing?"
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Or questions regarding most of the magazines at the grocery store checkout?
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Mommy, why does Jay Leno's chin look like Jennifer Lopez's ass?
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"Well, that's because Jay Leno's an assface, Timmy. Now come on, Mommy's in a hurry."
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Well I am sure that the kid has seen his parents kissing.
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I have never seen my parents kissing.
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You come from a loveless home.
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So you tell them the same thing. That's what adults do when they're in love.
Worst case you need to explain the different types of love. Ie, in love vs the love they feel for you and their siblings.
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There is a serious amount of down modding going on in this thread. I don't think it's really appropriate.
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they are holding hands they are kissing they are petting they are showing each other they love one another
???
what's there to be afraid of?
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Maybe the parents should not assume that their children have the same prohibition about two men or women kissing. What is this magic moment when suddenly a young child sees two homos making out?
You mean the child is born with an innate sense of heterosexuality? Oh no, you mean the parents have learned that hetero is correct, and project that onto their children, whom we've already admitted, have not yet developed notions of sexuality.
So what you're really saying is: "I want my kids to grow up with only one notion of sexuality. Not 3."
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-They're kissing.
-why ?
-Because they feel like it
easy !
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What about naked people in public? Or taking drugs in public? Or [insert any other socialy unpopular thing] in public?
Ofcourse thay will have to explain it to the kids, they will not stop asking. Explaining is not hard, but explaining that what they do is wrong will be hard. And once the kids see that something CAN be done, it's much more likely they will try it.
Which I'm all for it.
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My daughter wanted to know why she shouldn't walk around naked outside. In the spirit of full disclosure so vaunted here, apparently I should tell her there are men who want to put their weenises in her yoni, and seeing her yoni would make them crazy?
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Please don't use those words.
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Well obviously because its better to shelter your children for as long as possible. The best out come of course would be that your child grows up and has no idea how to deal with the reality of the world around them. Then if your lucky, and cross your fingers, they will fail in society because they have no way to deal with these situations because they were completely fucked by their parents.
I mean, thats how I raise my kids. Is that wrong or something?
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I could take the easy way out, and simply state that is it my religion. It is against God's law to make homosexuality your 'way of life'. I don't like having to explain murder, adultery, blasphemy, or any other sin to my children, but I guess I'll have to, when the time is right and they learn these things.
But I honestly thing homosexuality is a 'deviancy' and I like to think I'm pretty progressive in most other aspects in my thoughts/deeds. If you want to have a fling every now and again with someone of the same sex, I'm all for it, everyone likes some spice in their life. Just like S&M, sure, it can be a lot of fun. But as a 'way of life' that is mainstream, I guess I just don't agree with it.
For example, if your deviancy is S&M, and you are only 'truly happy' while performing S&M, and you want to wear a ball gag and a choke chain and dress in full leathers everywhere you go, and also get TV sitcoms during primetime written about you, and get a 'token character' that is into S&M in every single Hollywood movie, I think that's going a bit too far.
What happened to just living private lives, and what happens behind closed doors happens behind closed doors? I don't WANT to know about your 'fetish' and you probably don't want to know about mine
(And in case you do, it's juggling kittens while naked, riding on a midget's shoulders on a unicycle)
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So you're saying its fine to fuck around, but don't you DARE fall in love?
I think you're the deviant one.
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I think it's unfair to ask the rest of the population to change their beliefs, ideals, and morals because you fell in love with something that is outside the norm.
If you fell in 'love' with a dominatrix and you were truly only happy being a slave to her, do you think we should all glorify that, pass bills in courts of law protecting your 'right' and to not prosecute dominatrix' (what the hell is the plural for dominatrix?) for treating their 'slaves' poorly, like beatings, whippings, and generally depriving their 'slaves' of life & liberty because your dominatrix says so, and you get off on it?
It's a slippery slope, this whole political correctness of 'accepting' everyone. Toleration is one thing, and a nice thing, but don't ask me to embrace it.
I find it very hard to believe that any parent wishes that their child grows up to be homosexual. It's not something you wish for, in my opinion. So let's not celebrate it as being awesome and gay (heh), and make blockbuster movies about how 'cool' it is.
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I think it's unfair to ask the rest of the population to change their beliefs, ideals, and morals because you fell in love with something that is outside the norm.
Like if a white person fell in love with a black person in the 60s?
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I'll repeat myself.
Toleration is one thing, and a nice thing, but don't ask me to embrace it.
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"What happened to just living private lives, and what happens behind closed doors happens behind closed doors?"
Please be sure to tell that too the ridiculous large amount of heterosexuals I see everyday, who insist on public displays of affection (some moderate and some over the top).
Unless, you are advocating that ALL forms of public affection by all persons, mo matter sexual orientation, be banned, I can't help but think there's a tinge of discrimination going on.
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Look at it this way: There are two extremes, and there is a happy medium we can attempt to find in the middle.
Extreme #1: Islamic Fundamentalism, all women wear burqas, no PDA allowed anywhere, gays are shot, and generally no freedom.
Extreme #2: Pederasts, animal lovers, homosexuals, sodomites, and every fetish people can have you can think of all get to 'get freaky' at any time, any place, and we all have to accept it as part of the wonderful world of love & life.
Happy Medium: Hold hands, hug if you want to. Quick peck on the cheek, like they do in Europe when greeting friends. You want to do more than that, do it inside, somewhere private. Don't have marches. Don't have campaigns. Don't bother the government with requests for things when we really have better things to worry about. Don't infiltrate every single entertainment outlet with your particular brand of 'deviancy' and force it down other's throats.
Wasn't that the main part of the bill of rights? Your rights END where my rights begin. Be discreet, don't rock the boat, and you'll find that most people would accept you.
The rollerblading guy (as stated by Louis C.K. in his standup routine) who is wearing a lime green thong, wearing makeup, hair in curlers, and shouting 'HAAAAAYY' at passers-by is just asking to be hated.
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The rollerblading guy (as stated by Louis C.K. in his standup routine) who is wearing a lime green thong, wearing makeup, hair in curlers, and shouting 'HAAAAAYY' at passers-by is just asking to be hated.
Or Loved
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So, you equate homosexual public displays of affection with fucking dead kittens in public?
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I really don't understand you.
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...and more importantly, you're banned from the petting zoo.
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DFTFT
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I was reading this story and noticed this seemed to be a popular opinion. If you're out with your family and see gay people kissing, you will have to explain homosexuality to your children.
First of all, why would you feel compelled to explain anything (unless your children ask), and second, so what? What's the problem with telling your kids something like "Some ladies like other ladies, and some men like other men". There you go, there's your explanation. You're not condoning the behavior if that's what you're afraid of, and you're not graphically describing anal sex or tribbing or any other acts you might feel are immoral, so what the fuck is the problem?
I think it possibly stems from a belief that homosexuality is a sexual deviancy that everyone is equally subject to being tempted into by the devil. So, kind of like advocating "abstinence only": the more you suppress information the less tempted people will be to sin.
I work in the construction industry, which is a bastion of homophobia. I have asked some of the nitwits I've had the displeasure of working with why they have a problem with gay people kissing, and they all, basically, said the same thing. They don't like the idea of homosexuality, but they also don't like the idea of general public displays of affection. They attach a greater stigma to gays because of their small-mindedness, but the sentiment applies to all that appear to be happy in their presence, albeit not vocalized as much. This is probably a result of that greater societal cancer, organized religion.
Public signs of affection certainly aren't bad but when there are children around it is not cool to start playing tonsil hockey no matter what gender preference you are.
I enjoy people like you and this lovely closed open mindedness. You neglect to put yourself in the shoes of others and make yourself out to be as much of a bigot as your small minded co-workers. I wish religiophobe was a word because then I could use it to refer to you.
I'll voice my support. I don't see what religion has to do with whether or not someone is comfortable with public displays of affection. I've seen plenty of religious people do things in public that I would feel are completely in appropriate given the setting.
Additionally, I agree with your other point. Holding hands, brief kissing, etc is fine. Making out and beyond is really something for private. That's not to say you can't have a passionate kiss goodnight, but there's a point where you need to 'get a room' and it doesn't matter what your sexuality is.
You shoud mind your own business, and not judge other peoples chosen place for kissing (and fucking, for that matter).
Please at least try to explain to me why 'tonsil hockey' around children is not cool? Keep in mind that I come from completly different culture.
Can I take a guess? Dutch.
So fucking in front of little kids is A-OK?
Right, I think if slamare247 asked what they thought about ugly people kissing in public, and I mean really ugly, not just 'not what's in the magazines', I think they'd say the same thing. Hot people kissing, should not be an exception but it's probably become one due to societal norms. I'm not saying we should 'outlaw' it, but some people happen to like kissing in public not because it's kissing, but because they are being watched.
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How did an intellectual powerhouse such as yourself ever come to work with these vermin in the first place? What a tragic experience, poor you.
Obviously you have had no contact with the construction industry. Not everyone there is a moron, but lots of them are.
You're right, it's obvious I've had zero contact with the construction industry.
Hey BTW, check out our homepage: http://jwpincorporated.com
Yea.
In some cases i would say more about the explanation itself. Sure you pass it off as something as simple "Some ladies like other ladies, and some men like other men" but thats hardly a explanation for a child who may not even know about sex yet. Not only that its turns the typical explanation about a man and a women upside down, now you have this new difficult element that you need to explain to a curious mind.
But in my opinion it goes much deeper than that its quite literally an attack on a persons sexuality and their child's non existent personality. It may sound ridiculous but unless you hang out with liberal swinger crowd your going to find it very awkward talking about the pleasures of anal sex to grandmas after church service.For example ask anyone about their sex life in the richest detail and they will probably refuse, but ask Ron Jeremy and he will tell you a detailed story about the 3 tijauna whores he banged last night or how he can auto fellatio himself. The difference? Sheer confidence in ones sexuality and many parents don't poessss it and even if they do worry about their child own non developed sexuality. Simply put it will think the experience will turn them gay or degenerate. Will it? Very unlikely. The truth is behind most homophobia is that they cannot deal with homosexuality because of their own weak image of sexuality, the parents are under attack as well. They fear it out of thier childrens sake and thier own and thier own and wish to ban it. Mind you if it was a simple matter of just the adults they could just ignore it, but they cannot prevent their children from ignoring it and as such they cannot ignore it themselves.
And the reality? If you treat two people of the same sex kissing in public like it was nothing your children will likely to do the same.
I think we need to get away from the notion of what people do in public being an attack on those observing them.
I have anger management problems, and I am constantly told -- it is not the other person making you angry; you are making yourself angry.
I think the same holds here. It's not the homosexuals making you uncomfortable about discussing sexuality with your children; you are making yourself uncomfortable.
it's a paradigm shift at a young age? (i've got no prob, just trying to suggest something)
It kinda depends on how young... one's concept of gender roles and appropriate romantic behavior become more solid over time, not less so (until mid/late adolescence when higher order reasoning and critical thinking begin to take over more thoroughly). It is easier to explain at a young age when they are still forming their understanding of sexual mores and gender roles.
certainly, more moldable.
Pretty much. If a kid's never seen anything but males and females holding hands, and then suddenly sees two guys doing it, he's going to ask why, for the same reason he asks why about everything else that's new to him.