EU threatens to suspend Poland's membership and withdraw it's voting rights
thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/poland-defies-eu...
thetimes.co.ukPosted Jul 21, 2017, 8:46 AM UTC
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thetimes.co.ukPolexit please
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They don't even have jury trials in France or Germany. The people can't be trusted. The judges decide the law and the facts.
So in Germany the people who convict you of crimes, are the people who the state sanctions to act as judges. They are the prosecutors, judges, juries, executionors. So It's rich hearing them in particular bitch about 'the protection of the people and the Independence of the judiciary from the government.'
The Germans are about as authoritarian as they come.
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Fuck. Intense stuff.
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Paywall so
Poland triggered a showdown between eastern and western Europe yesterday when its MPs voted to give parliament the power to appoint supreme court judges, despite the threat of sanctions from Brussels. The European Commission had warned that the legislation would undermine the separation of judicial and political powers, seen as a cornerstone of democracy and the rule of law.
On Wednesday it gave Poland a week to rethink the plans and to avoid sanctions: the suspension of its full EU membership by the withdrawal of its voting rights, a measure that has never been used against a member state. Thousands of people protested against the legislation in Warsaw yesterday, many waving EU flags This enraged the Polish government, which yesterday won the backing of Hungary to resist European officials. Tensions have been running high in some of the former communist nations, which are resisting the EU’s insistence that every member state must take a share of refugees.
The latest dispute began when Poland’s ruling Law and Justice Party rushed through a bill proposed only last week to give the justice minister the power to appoint judges to the supreme court. Further powers for the minister to organise the work of the court and decide which judges should remain were switched to the president under an amendment last night designed to make it more palatable to Brussels.
The bill quickly followed one that was approved last week, giving parliament control over the National Council of the Judiciary. Jaroslaw Kaczynski, leader of Law and Justice party, sits at the centre of the front row as his party votes to pass the controversial measureJaroslaw Kaczynski, leader of Law and Justice party, sits at the centre of the front row as his party votes to pass the controversial measure “Collectively, they would abolish any remaining judicial independence and put the judiciary under full political control of the government,” Frans Timmermans, vice-president of the commission, said, adding that the changes would “considerably increase the systemic threat to the rule of law”.
Polish MPs voted by 235 to 192, with 23 abstentions, to pass the bill and send it to the upper house today, where it is certain to pass thanks to the Law and Justice Party’s majority there. The final step to becoming law will be the signature of President Duda, a lawyer who used to be a Law and Justice MP, but who ran as an independent for the presidency in 2015. Crowds gathered in Warsaw last night calling for him to veto the bill. Donald Tusk, the former prime minister of Poland who is now president of the European Council, called for a solution to a “very serious situation”. He said that he has proposed a meeting with Mr Duda to try to avoid “bleak outcomes which could ultimately lead to the marginalisation of Poland in Europe”. He added: “They transport us, in the political sense, in time and in space backwards and eastwards and ruin an already tarnished public opinion of Polish democracy.”
Mr Duda’s office said the president had rejected the offer of a meeting with Mr Tusk. During yesterday’s debate, Adam Bodnar, Poland’s human rights ombudsman, told parliament that the legislation would “deprive citizens of the right to an independent court”, adding: “We are planting an explosive under our judiciary.” Law and Justice said that it wanted to shake up the top court because it had become a “state within a state” and lacked accountability. It was heavily criticised for making political appointments to the constitutional court in 2015, but escaped EU censure. Jaroslaw Kaczynski, chairman of the party, said that “far-reaching, radical actions” were required because the judiciary had not been reformed since communist times and was inefficient.
Opposition politicians, judges and European officials criticised the vote. Grzegorz Schetyna, head of Civic Platform, the main opposition party, denounced the bill as an “announcement of a coup”. Malgorzata Gersdorf, president of the supreme court, said that the bill would transform it into a “court attached to the justice ministry”. She added: “This is very dangerous for the political system we are living in.” Krystian Markiewicz, president of Iustitia, the Polish judges’ association, also described the proposed change to the law as a “coup”. “The rule of law and democracy are ending, the independence of powers is over,” Mr Markiewicz said. “The minister will appoint the judges that he favours.” He added that the measure was introduced “at night, completely out of the blue, with no social consultation” and “does not fit into EU standards”.
Hungary said that it stood by Poland and warned the commission not to meddle in Poland’s internal affairs. Peter Szijjarto, the Hungarian foreign minister, added: “We stand by Poland and we call on the European Commission not to overstep its authority.” Mr Timmermans said on Wednesday that the commission could invoke Article 7 of the EU treaties, which could lead to voting rights in the Council of the European Union being suspended. The article was set up to hold countries accountable for human rights violations, but the ultimate step of suspension would require unanimity, with Hungary unlikely to support the move.
Interesting comment
I wonder how many commenting on the current crisis in Poland have the first-hand knowledge of the issues and how many speak to the language to understand what this battle is really about. This article misses a few very important facts as it doesn't make it clear that the opposition party who lost the last elections ie the Civic Platform have a large and powerful representation in Brussels and Donald Tusk and friends make it very difficult for the current government to reform the institutions of the state that were never working under the previous government. For many years the judges were politically appointed and no one bat an eyelid! Suddenly this is a problem when the new government tries to formalise the practice. This article fails to mention a number of financial frauds that have rocked the country recently which prompted the reform of the judiciary and the legal system. As I understand thousands of investors lost their deposits and government-owned property was misappropriated with the full knowledge and cooperation of the legal profession. While the Civic Platform was in power these crimes were never investigated and the judiciary actively prevented anyone from probing any further. Why this is never reported here? All we get is the photos of protests and no explanation whether the legal system in Poland has ever functioned at all?
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Stay strong Polish Friends!
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Dogs without teeth, barking.
They can't do it without unanimity. Hungary will not go for it. If they try to do the same to Hungary, Poland won't go for it. So it will not happen and they should shut their yap.
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EU overtly undermining the autonomy of sovereign nations now, all because they won't allow them to quite literally take over their country.
Europe is full-blown fucked.
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Absolutely hilarious. The EU Keeps clutching to their beliefs of being all powerful. But oh how wrong you folks are. People are finally awake to your bullshit empty threats. Men and woman will willing follow a good leader to their deaths for the right cause. You fuck wits have ensured your own demise with your threats or sanctions and people are now awake to how full of shit you are. Violence only works for so long. About time we told these parasites to fuck off. Bravo Poland.
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EU membership is not more important than the stability and ethnic identity of a nation. Poland would be insane to jeopardize its very existence just to please the genocidal intentions of the EU.
http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Poland/United-States/Geography Important and worth while reference. Poland is slightly smaller than new mexico. Kinda puts things into perspective, united states is being FUCKED by similar bullshit and so many act like there is nothing they can do. The USA is being silently invaded just the same as much of EU.
FUCK anti-racism, FUCK muslims, FUCK refugees, FUCK welfare leeches, FUCK communism.
What the fuck are you rambling about? What genocidal intentions are you talking about? Do you know what a genocide is? A genocide means that someone throws children off windows because of where they were born. Is the EU doing this to Europeans with polish passport?
The government in Poland has taken control of mass media, wants to (or has made iirc) abortion illegal. They sent a literal Nazi to the European Parliament who rambled about women being inferior to men.
Do you prefer that shitshow or do you prefer an organization that managed to keep Europe peaceful for the longest period in human history?
According several UN definitions what is happening to Europe can be classified as genocide.
This is bad?
That's not what a "literal nazi" is.
That organization is responsible for reducing Europe into a third world hellhole thanks to third world invasion.
Also this post I made was 28 days ago. Where the fuck are you coming from?
Huh, didn't realize I was in reddit's sewer system.
Keep living in the US, I guess I'll be smoldering in this "third world hellhole" called Europe that you're more than welcome to come visit.
Which part of it?
u/ToOurEnd is the type of guy who thinks a clump of cells has consciousness, this type of guy cant pass a high school level freshman biology course, don't be this guy, this is why I sometimes hate living in the United States because there are so many retards who think, "let's abandon our secular values and become a Christian nation, what's the worse that can happen", someone like me says "look I left a theocratic shit hole in the Middle East, plz don't forget the things that make the USA modern". They'll say "oh no, that's Sharia law, we only want to ban abortion, teach creationism in schools, make woman feel like second class citizens, and disregard science because JESUS loves all". This is why I can't sleep at night sometimes because I'm scared that conservatives might make the USA a Christian sharia country that is no better than the Middle East.
In your mindless blithering that was entirely unrelated to that post, a post made an entire month ago, you did not present even a semblance of an argument. You built a pathetic strawman with zero grounding in reality whatsoever. No where was Christianity mentioned yet here you are, using me as your vessel for yet another hackneyed attack on a religion I'm indifferent towards.
I know mommy and daddy took you to Sunday school and you're still bitter about it but expressing it towards a month old post is pretty fucking pathetic.
Damn I was wrong I assumed you where an uneducated creationist who was brainwashed by religion, the fact that you aren't and support "pro life" shows how cruel and disgusting you are lol, you've never been forced to carry an unwanted organism so stfu you cancer
Why the fuck did you hunt down a month old post that wasn't related to Christianity/abortion at all? Why are you still pushing a topic I didn't comment on?