Do you think it is possible to use a natured technique without knowing the nature?

This isn't a point I came up with this is something that I was arguing with someone else over due to them claiming it is possible while I think it is not. The arguments that they used were things such as Sasuke learning the great fireball jutsu even though it's hard to learn nature techniques, the other was that Shikamaru asked Kitsuchi to give everyone the handseals for an earth release technique that is so simple that anyone could use it implying that it is a technique that can be used by only knowing the hand seals.

Now my rebuttal is that Sasuke most likely was taught how to use fire release considering that he has fire release listed as one of his natures and I highly doubt those other two techniques make the difference. Also there are academy students who know nature transformation (i.e. Sumire). There is also the fact that Kakashi was surprised that Sasuke knew the technique due to him just graduating the academy implying that he has very advanced techniques for his age. Then against the one about the earth style technique, I think that 1. Shikamaru may have been referring to anyone who knows earth release and is not on the stone's wall building team in the army because earth release seems to be a very common nature and 2. while in the fourth databook it is stated that it can easily be used by non-primary earth users it doesn't take away from the it still never implies that it can be used by anyone who doesn't know it at all. Another hint of evidence that makes me think that there is no knowing natured techniques without knowing the nature is the fact that Kakashi was stated to be able to copy ninjutsu through hand seals but only as long as he knows the nature, implying that he can't use a jutsu with a nature that he doesn't know(luckily for him he knows all 5).

Now this is just my opinion on the matter but I want to know what side others are on.