Source
r/AppalachianTrail•
cnphilli

Clarification for those confused about Fastest Known Times and Self-Supported Records (In light of Stringbean breaking both) (yes... breaking both)

There are 2 kinds of speed records for the A.T.: The Fastest Known Time, and the Self-Supported Record.

The Fastest Known Time is held by the individual who moves his or her body from one Terminus to the other the fastest.

Self-Supported has more strict rules about not having friends or family help you. There are probably other rules, but for the scope of this argument it is unnecessary to list them.

Stringbean moved his body from one Terminus to the other the fastest and also did so while following the Self-Supported Rules. Therefore he holds both records. To argue anything else is pointless. Please feel free to cite articles that disagree with me because I would like to contact them to get this straightened out.

A quick analogy may help. Say I am in the Olympics for the Marathon and decide that not only am I going to run the Marathon, but I am going to contact the Guiness Book of World Records and attempt to run the Fastest Marathon without drinking any water. I then make the attempt and set the record for Fastest Marathon Without Water, BUT I also by some miracle break the World Record for the Fastest Marathon Ever. I will get both records! They are not going to deny me the world record because I didn't drink water.

Posted Sep 1, 2017, 2:24 PM UTC · edited

3446
Pinewood74•

Agreed.

It's really just that there's the overall record and the un-supported record.

The "supported" is just used for clarification, but does not actually require support.

Articles like these dont refer to it as the Supported record, its just The AT record.

18
datson831•

I'm more interested in the FKT to get your picture at the summit of Mt Washington. I once did it in 17 minutes but I was supported by my trekking poles.

14
Xabster•

You ask for an article that says otherwise... where did you read about the hike to begin with?

6
FrightenedRunner•

Who was keeping track to say its a self-supported record?

5
valuethempaths•

Can you still hitchhike in an "unsupported" thru-hike?

3
cnphilliOPClammy GA-ME '13•

I have been told that "self supported" means no hitching

4
valuethempaths•

Can you get mail? Can you accept a candy bar from a fellow hiker? I have so many questions! Including how one can race a course with SO MANY variables (Random ever-changing blue blazes, sporadic bear canister requirements, etc.)

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cnphilliOPClammy GA-ME '13•

All of these questions are why the most relevant and discussed record it the fastest known time. No gray area with that one.

3
classymathguyNOBO 2015•

For an unsupported record you can't do any resupply, so there will probably never be an unsupported AT thru hike.

For a self supported thru hike I think you can receive mail, but I think you must send it yourself. I do not believe you can get a candy bar from a fellow hiker. You cannot get in a car.

Things like bear canister requirements might not be as important as you'd expect, as they're unlikely to affect someone moving that fast. On the other hand, I guess every minute counts.

2
valuethempaths•

It still seems so nuanced to be controlled enough for a race. I mean hell, if the guy that paddles you across the kennebec wakes up on the wrong side of the bed, you could lose precious time.

1
mittencamperwww.mittencamper.com•

AFAIK you can accept food from other people like trail angels and other hikers, but you cannot ASK for it. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

1
End2Ender•

I really don't think there is a definitive answer on this like people on either side are claiming. Fkt boards is the community keeper of these records and they aren't always consistent with the records they place in bold on each trails page. For example on the AT they currently have two separate records for supported and self supported. The long trail has two records for supported and unsupported. Presumably they ignore the self supported because the unsupported is faster. But the Colorado trail page lists supported, unsupported, and self supported even though the unsupported is faster than the self supported.

So ultimately the community is going to have to decide if a supported hike is a rectangle, is a self supported hike a circle (different enough to be unique) or a square (subset that meets all requirements)? I guess you can make the argument that have a crew and being reliant on them is a unique set of difficulties, although I don't think it's a very strong argument. I would personally say that there is a difference between the two hikes, but outside of historical context and a learning example Meltzer's hike is somewhat irrelevant now because a self supported checks all the boxes of a supported hike.

On a different note it looks like Anish is currently on the Colorado trail. Interested to see if she can grab that fkt.

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cnphilliOPClammy GA-ME '13•

I was not necessarily verifying that record had been broken. I was merely explaining what the implications are assuming StringBean has done what he claims.

1
wzl46Bear Bag 2016 Flip Flop GA WV ME WV•

Holy crap! I took more zero days than this guy spent finishing the trail. Well done!

2
Tristatt•

So, in regards to "clarification", this seems kinda vague with "There are probably other rules" in the explanation of self supported and without any information offered for previous and current record.

It seems that the "clarification" is on the defense of an opinion more-so than offering actual clarification.

"Stringbean" may very well hold this record, as I've read a declaration of this a few days ago, however, "fastest known times" as said in the title are no where to be seen and this stance isn't evidenced based at all, so it won't really sway anyone because it's just an opinion.

I'd maybe link an article on stringbeans times and verification along with in the body of your post actually share previous record.

Example would be u/scrubhiker 's post he made recently on this sub, though he's not trying to sway people, but he shares times, hiker, article. Seems solid.

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cnphilliOPClammy GA-ME '13•

I'm not really defending the claim that stringbean did the a.t. as fast as he said he did. I'm just clarifying that if he has, he now holds both records.

1
AlexDr0ps•

How fast did he do it?

1
KookeyMooseAppalachian Trail 19,000 Miler•

It's very impressive what this hiker did. Amazing really. However a huge majority of folks in the hiking community don't require this feat being explained to them like they were a five year old child. We get it.

1
ddddddjim•

he holds the unsupported record, which beats the current supported record as well. they are different. what is interesting here is he has clearly shown a lot of room for improvement over the supported record. someone is going to crush the supported time in the coming years now that he has shown the current supported record is doable unsupported. i don't agree though. they are different. he just exceeded the expectations of the entire community.

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cnphilliOPClammy GA-ME '13•

What are the rules of a supported thruhike? Did he not follow any of these rules?

Also, do you disagree with my analogy?

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ddddddjim•

i see your point and didn't miss it in your initial post. while there is validity to your argument, the simplest answer is it wasn't a supported hike. that's why.

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cnphilliOPClammy GA-ME '13•

A supported hike does not require support. It is simply an option. It is also an option to chew bubble gum the whole time, but again it is not a requirement. That is why it is not called a supported hike. It is called a "Fastest Known Time".

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pilgrim_AT•

I think that's the exact point being debated. Does a supported hike require support or is it just allowed (optional)? If there's no consensus on that, then its just everyone's opinion. FWIW, my opinion is that support is allowed, thus it is optional, and therefore he's got both records.

1
Pinewood74•

How about this?

There are three records: Overall, Unsupported and Supported.

Why someone would give a shit who was the fastest person to receive a minimum of one candy bar from a pre-arranged source is beyond me, but Stringbean has the first two records i listed.

2
ddddddjim•

speedgoat holding the third. i agree with your assessment.

1
slowtreme•

what the heck is Overall if it's not Supported or Self-Supported? Does Overall include blueblazing or yellowblazing?

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Simco_Messenger 2012•

un = self but you're otherwise right.

There's like, two or three people on this board right now who are new to FKTs but extremely passionate about their opinions. I've learned this morning you'll just have to let them figure it out on their own.

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