Source
r/wildhearthstone•
SunCon

Naga Sea Witch: Cost Reduction Bugs & Interactions

Some one on r/hearthstone posted this showing that Dragon's Breath does not get reduced from 5 mana with Naga Sea Witch(NSW) on board after killing minions, even though Volcanic Drake does.

Some people brought up Solemn Vigil in the thread. I tested it, and sure enough its cost doesn't get reduced after minions are killed either.

I decided to test some other cost reduction mechanics. Mechwarper, Dragon Consort, Blackwater Pirate, Dread Corsair, Skycapn Kragg, and Happy Ghoul all work, reducing their cost or the cost of cards they effect from 5 mana if NSW is on board.

Kirin Tor Mage & Kabal Lackey both reduced secrets to 0 mana when played with NSW on board. EDIT: This only works in the correct play order. Playing Kirin/Lackey first, then NSW resets secrets to 5 mana. So along with the following cards order of operations counts. (thanks u/scissorblades)

Like the giants, Kabal Crystal Runner maintains her cost reduction after being set to 5 mana from NSW.

Sorcerer's Apprentice works only if played after NSW, if played first NSW sets spells to 5 mana and the cost reduction from Apprentice is lost.

Unstable Portal is similar. Minions generated before NSW is played will be set to 5 mana, but if generated with NSW on board they will cost 2 mana. I don't have Primordial Glyphs to test unfortunately, but I'm guessing it works similarly to Unstable Portal.

It appears that just the two spells from Black Rock Mountain are the only cards that NSW doesn't interact with. Are there any other cost reduction mechanics that need to be tested or don't work?

EDIT 2: u/gabrieldx pointed out NSW doesn't seem to work with the Everyfin Is Awesome discount either.

Posted Sep 7, 2017, 4:51 PM UTC · edited

1511
scissorblades•

I have no clue what to make of this. From your Sorcerer's Apprentice and Unstable Portal examples it sounds like there's some sort of timestamp order going on, but it could also be bugs.

Are there other cards where playing NSW before/after makes a difference? E.g. do Kirin Tor and Lackey reduce secrets to 0 regardless of whether you play them before or after NSW?

8
SunConOP•

I had only played Kirin/Lackey after. I went back to test it & you are correct on your suspicion. Playing Kirin then Naga reset the cost of a secret in hand to 5 mana. Good call.

1
jdoucette24•

Loetheb. I got totally blown out when I loetheb leading into the Druid's 10 mana turn to prevent Ultimate infestation. He then dropped NSW and an Ultimate Infestation anyway. Loetheb says spells cost 5 more. the new NSW makes it so their core cost is 5. but now it works both ways just because? i dont like it.

7
SunConOP•

You're saying you played Loatheb to set their spells to +5 mana, then their NSW set them to 5 mana? That seems to follow how Loatheb worked before with order of play, with cards like Millhouse for instance.

1
jdoucette24•

yes. but with the changes to naga sea witch isnt it supposed to change the base cost of the card like with the giants. so UI should still cost 10?

3
SunConOP•

You're right if they just had their one NSW already on board. NSW had made UI 5, Loatheb added 5 more for 10 mana. It would have been 10 if they didn't play a NSW on the same turn. The new NSW then overrode your Loatheb's effect setting it back to 5.

2
jdoucette24•

ok so what does naga sea witch do now cause it doesnt seem consistent. does it change the base cost of the card to 5 or change the cost of the card in hand to 5? and did it work differently with Loatheb before this change?

1
scissorblades•

Okay, I think I have a guess for how NSW and cost-changing effects work, as well as what exactly changed about NSW to enable Giants.

Cost-changing effects from battlecries, minion effects, and spells are applied in timestamp order from oldest to newest, so the latest effect takes precedence. Unstable Portal falls under this category, and Primordial Glyph probably does too.

Cost-changing effects that are on the card itself (like Giants and Crystal Runner) apply after effects from battlecries and minions. (I'm thinking Unstable Portal sticks an effect on the card that reduces its cost, so it's not considered innate to the card, but I haven't taken a close look to check if it's a visible effect like Light in the Darkness or not.)

Previously, Giant cost reduction would apply before other effects, or had a timestamp equal to the start of the game, so they would apply first and get cancelled out by NSW. Now, all minions that change their own cost do so after on-board effects, but spells still follow the old behavior for some reason.

Interestingly this means that, technically speaking, NSW didn't change at all, but the Giants changed around it.

1
SunConOP•

Here's Ben Brode explaining why they changed what they changed, if you're curious. Spoilers, it was Bright Eyed Scout that instigated the mess.

2
SunConOP•

Ohh. That's an interesting conclusion. I've assumed that the change was related to the KFT adventure, and that affected NSW. But it being a change to the giants' code could make sense too.

No one has from Blizzard ever said what the change was, just that it was intended. I asked u/bbrode in one of the other threads if they could explain it.

1