I feel like the title can be a bit confusing, but what I wanted to discuss is how plausible is to think that a lower average MMR team can beat a higher MMR team. What could be the main differences between those said teams?
EDIT: thanks guys
Posted Sep 11, 2017, 1:37 PM UTC · edited
If you let five 3k players play against four 3k players + one 5k player then the 5k player will win >80% of the games (assuming he is a mid/carry player playing mid/carry). Now substitute the other four 3k players by 5k players and it will be close to impossible to win for the 3k team.
It kinda goes without saying right? The 5ks are gonna farm better,rotate better, abuse their spikes, and probably win almost every time unless they throw
Any given Sunday. The truth is that if the 3k team and the 5k team play each other enough times, the 3k's will eventually win a game. I would predict that the 3k's win about 1 in every 100 games they play.
Only if the 5ks are playing to just fuck around. Then maybe they will eventually lose.
If you make them both play their best, by putting something on the line like a prize money, I don't think the 3ks can ever win.
There are some videos on YT about this situation and the result is 5k's winning.
A 3k team will never beat 5k team, unless the 5ks are trying to lose
Essentially you're asking if five guys can beat five guys who are way better than them—the answer, as a general rule, would be "no." (I vaguely recall some 3k vs. 5k showmatches being organized on r/Dota2 before, so you might try searching around on there too.)
There's a reason why they're 5K . Unfortunately the chance beating 2K MMR Difference team is extremely small , even if you're stacked vs a solo-queue 5K , they can just communicate decently and abuse their skill advantage to roll over 3Ks.
I wonder. If the 5k team doesn't know they are playing a 3k team.. which team would rage first and secure victory?
3Ks tend to have decent mechanics, but there is a huge gap in macro-game ability between them and 5Ks. I would expect the 3Ks to make significant mistakes with builds and map movement which would allow the 5Ks to easily win. Otherwise, they probably aren't 3Ks.
thank you. that's what I was looking for, what would the 3k team do that would so obviously give the 5k the win
Better to think of it as a series. In a BO 5 or 7. The 5k team will win. The 3k might (probably not) win a game, it's possible due to missplays or missdrafts. But the probability of them winning the series is very low.
So based on a lot of people talking about 3ks NEVER beat 5ks I wanted to share my story.
One time I played at a LAN at my school. Back then I was 3.5k, my friend was 4k, we had to 3k and one 2k. We played a stack of people who were between 5.5-6.5k.
We cheesed the shit out of them. We played undying tusk dual offlane, gave our mid viper so he could hold his own mid, and our 2k cm in order to let us pressure top. This was also the patch right before tusk and undying were really popular. We won fights 4v2, out farmed their trilane, mid lost because he tried to rotate over and failed. And in the end we beat them pretty handily.
It can happen. Don't listen to people who would say it will never happen that's not true. You just have to do something so unordinary that the other team can't predict and pressure them. As soon as you go to a farm battle you will most likely lose.
Tusk undying never forget </3
It varies a lot. What different players focus on just differs a great deal. In the Open Qualifiers for TI we saw the allstar Sing, Bulldog, Cancel stack get as far as Bulldog's funstack which had a 2k support player. But then Liquid the team with the highest avagere mmr won TI deftly.
Realistically MMR just represents constanty adjusted odds of winning. See the wikipedia article for elo.
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Me and my 3k friends have beated 5k teams on joinDota league a handful of times.
We have lost to 5k teams more ofc but as they say mmr is just a number.
Delusional
Almost impossible. If you start paying attention to games where 1 side has just plus 100 MMR average, you'll see they have a huuuge advantage. MMR system gives them +20 instead of 25 for winning so it kinda assumes 60% winrate which sounds right, and that's only 100 MMR.
Its worth noting individual MMR is more important than average though. A 6k and few 2ks has good odds vs a 4k and a few 3ks.
Purge has a video on this, its part of his "Purge's guide to mmr" series. Check out video 1 & 3 iirc. (Bit outdated, majority of data still stands)
The 3k team will always lose. The 5K players will have hundreds of games against other 5k, who farm, rotate, itemize, and take objectives better than 4ks.
No way a team of 3k will beat 5ks, even if the 3ks are all in teamspeak and the 5ks play without any communication.
Even a single 5k in a team of 3ks will have no problem winning.
Unless it's a stack vs solo queue I don't think a 3k team can beat a 5k stack as they're better in every way. From drafting, laning phase, item builds, ability usage, comunnication skills, map awareness, game sense, etc.
I.E. playing like another 5k team.