I'm Only Happy When We Raid: Destiny 2: Leviathan - PART 02 [Discussion Thread]
Posted Sep 29, 2017, 3:16 PM UTC · edited
33155
"Spooky Slide" is a strong contender for my favorite phrase from Part 2. Not sure it can beat Dog Bottom though.
19
I just love that they call the councilors "old men"
10
Maaaan, as much as I love the GB crew, it's really painful hearing them talk smack about the game when they're really not that good at it :/
Watching half of them die over and over trying to get through the simple Underbelly entrance was really telling.
19
down voted for speaking the truth. Lol The internet
3†
shrugs
I would understand if they complained about mechanics wiping them due to bugs/glitches etc, but it rubs me the wrong way when they (or anyone really) complains about the quality of an encounter before knowing all the mechanics and not having enough skill to complete it.
Like I mentioned above, when they opened the entrance to the Underbelly and had to jump on those pipes. That's some of the simplest platforming in the game and half of them struggled over and over on it. Which in itself isn't really an issue, it's when one of them piped up with, "man this platforming really is fun" in that sarcastic, reductionist way that eats at me.
I'm sorry you're struggling with parts of the raid, but that doesn't mean the raid is bad.
14
"man this platforming really is fun"
That's the complaint that personally I would take the least umbrage with. The platforming on those rounded surfaces isn't great (if it's the same/similar as Destiny 1 at least), it's not a challenge, and there's no risk (just respawn and do it again). Having it there at all just feels dumb/pointless, and I can see how deep into the raid they were that can turn into "Man, just let me get to the next thing FFS".
6
[deleted]
1
I think they would have no problem if the last encounter allowed more chances to recover from a single death. Or just let players figure out earlier that they don't have the DPS to finish the encounter. Or it was easier to get to that final stage to practice it jumping from platform to platform.
It seems like a fun raid, but needs tweeking in that last encounter to not feel like they died for unfair reasons.
1
I think Jeff not talking for the last couple hours was a good indicator of what he thinks of the raid. I think it's partially the fight being bullshit, and part Abby/Alex spacing out and wiping.
19
the only really BS part of the fight is the physics in the shadow realm though, the other parts are fair
14
not exactly. They (and brad did not know this) are doing it slightly wrong. In space, you set 3 people in positions left center right. Each person is positioned in such a way that the enemies directly in front of them become harder and harder to hit because of the environmental ramps that are set up. So, the best way is to CROSS FIRE and cover your teamates.
During Space encounter, the order of operations is thus:
(assume you are LEFT player)
- Pre-aim camera right, get Calus' forehead into top left corner of your vision, but this also puts all spawning enemies into the center of your screen
- wait for, and call out forehead logo. Immediately Aim Down Sight
- Enemies spawn into your reticule, and rightmost one is in cover from your right teammate's perspective, but completely vulnerable to you. Kill psion before they can summon boost attack that kills your teamate. Call clear.
- Fire on Projections, call clear.
- Adjust your own position to avoid holes and ramps
- Repeat.
The most BS part of that fight (and all destiny raids) is if 1 player has lag. Because the game runs mostly on Peer to Peer service for enemy locations. THis was shown during stream part 1 where in the gauntlet, brad and some other people were complaining the big bosses were teleporting into their face and killing them. One of them had a poor connection and caused it. Most teams quit the instance and re-enter if it gets bad enough to cause wipes.
edit: the easiest and hardest might be center player. They have to alternate and adapt, because their landscape changes the least, but they are forced to reposition the most, and they have the most enemies to worry about (they have perfect view of 80% of the enemies that spawn)
4
yep, the psions spawning and casting the purple bounce pad from behind a wall.
2
That bits bullshit, but with practice you get used to it, e.g. you know on the third barrier you have to chuck your nade to that wall to kill the fucker immediately
1
no, the correct pattern is to cross fire and cover team. Not to throw nades which does not guarantee a kill
1
The last three that spawn are kinda bunched up so my team found the voidwall grenade could sometimes get all of em. Other than that, always cross-firing on the sides seems to work really well at getting rid of them before they can cast.
1
Sounds like Jeff's getting pissed off with people trying to tweet or otherwise message them with how to do the raid
They want to figure it out themselves people, damn
16
They want to figure out themselves, yet they were upset that they couldn't complete it. It's a lose/lose. They weren't making progress and Brad wasn't telling them how to perform better. Even after they knew how to do it, they couldn't. So it was either take some new, fresh advice to help or keep forcing it until you get it. Forcing the same strategies didn't work, as we learned after 5+ hours.
10
I haven't been watching super closely, but from what I've looked at it seems like they're basically on the right track, they just have to execute. They don't have much left to figure out.
1
It seems weird to me that in every other part of the raid when an Old Man pops up you're supposed to punch them pretty much as soon as you can but suddenly in this final fight you're supposed to wait. It just feels like a weird design thing of teaching one thing and then suddenly flipping it around and punishing you for doing what it taught you before.
16
It's not THAT inconsistent. It's because in Stream2 brad doesn't explain the extra parts of the mechanics (or he doesn't know).
The way Old Men work is that they generate projections and projections kill you.
In Lobby (castellum) they start by teaching you that old man shows up and they generate psionic shielding (faux projection) for orange dudes that want to take the staff. So you kill Old man... immediately... right? Well, there's a catch to it, more adds stream in if you keep going in the encounter.
In gauntlet, you can let the old man live, but the projection will kill you. Technically, you can allow the old man to live as long as you kill the projection (there are other complications).
In final boss encounter, several things are happening that brad doesn't tell them.
- You can kill all 4 old man all the time. The benefit is that the space team will no longer need to call out forehead logo. BUT for every old man you kill - it spawns a fuckton of adds.
- You can kill the CORRECT old man, but the ones left alive will generate projections in the space realm. Space team MUST kill projections or you die.
- The Correct old man dying is part of the 'exclusion' theme of this raid, it is also the direct trigger for the hump barrier that saves the space team.
- Heavy Ammo is guaranteed to spawn from Orange Bar enemies, including Old man. However, the rule is: You must claim kill credit (final blow), OR [you have contributed to damage AND be within minimum radius of enemy when enemy dies]
So what do these things mean?
Destiny players who understand the mechanics can exploit. First they teach newbies "just kill the correct old man" at final fight. But when the going gets tough and you lose a space team player, teams can opt to murder all the old man and pop all supers to clear the adds that show up to salvage the run.
You can also look at it as, during gauntlet, you can opt to never leave pillar, and just sit on your plate and murder projections and add spawns and do it that way. (that's not optimal, but you get the idea).
You can always get enough POWER ammo to kill final boss, because if you are starving for power ammo, you take your turn to kill the old man. Good teams rotate the punching person so everyone gets an ammo brick.
Good teams also make sure lower level players are in range before issuing the final bullet on a tough enemy, so they can get ammo, so they can survive. The GB team has a lot of problems stemming from inexperience.
4
Yeah, I was just thinking about that and it is a weird design decision to suddenly make them off limits. Even the Old Men in the Void Zone should be killed immediately, but not the ones in the Throne Room. I've even heard that killing the Old Men when they first appear makes more adds appear during the part where the team splits up.
3
I've watched people beat this raid in about half an hour.
This is going to sound rude, but I really don't mean it to be. They just aren't good enough. They don't have the coordination or the gear.
16
Assuming they give it another shot on Monday, and unless ben/abby/alex get above 280 it ain't gonna happen. I'm not even sure that will matter. They aren't failing at the damage output, it's simple shit like forgetting to call out the symbols or being reckless and standing in a group of bad guys. Watching Abby use an SMG like a scout rifle for a while was rough too
13
Server maintenance on Monday so i wouldn't bank on it
1
Frankly I think the whole "Brad doesn't give hints unless he needs to" thing needs to go. I've never "discovered" anything about a raid, even if nobody in my group has ever done it before. We just look up a walkthrough. And execution is so important that it's still a healthy and fun challenge
8
I agree to some extent. As someone who's taken plently of "first timers" through Calus or other Raids, Brad should be the point of sugguestion and help. As the leader, he should tell them what weapons might be best, move people around to bring out their strengths, and ask why and how they died so he can help them improve. Not saying he should tell them what they should do, but after the mechanics are laid out and they are still failing, he should provide more insight to help them.
5
I agree, but I'm not sure brad knew enough of the mechanics and roles as he's only done it once or twice and probably done the same role each time
4
I'll disagree. For me, the most fun part of doing VoG the first time was beating our head against it to figure out the puzzle. The trial and error teamwork where you almost have to scientific method your way through is extremely gratifying.
That said, it's only fun if you have a team of people who buy into it. If half the team is burning out, running out of time, or just not having fun, then you have to get help or risk not completing it at all.
3
While I do agree and have done all 5 raids the same way myself, I think they were specifically going for trying to do it blind. For Kings Fall they weren't, and Brad just explained every encounter before they started.
1
"Get my keys, meet me in the bathroom"
13
The dragonflies are real, and strong, and they’re Dan’s friends.
13
Really excited for this. I went to r/destinysherpa and did the raid myself after seeing Part 1. First time I've ever raided and it was awesome. Got a shit load of good loot too. Can't recommend doing that enough if you're a solo Destiny player
11
Were you deep into destiny 1? If so I absolutely recommend going back to do those raids, Leviathan is great for sure but god damn is there some shit in the old raids.
8
I did everything in D1 except the raids. I don't really have the time to go back and do those now unfortunately. I'm just going to keep current with the new D2 stuff
6
Really happy to hear that. I remember my first VoG run being a very similiar experience.
Think I got Fatebringer, Icebreaker, and the fabled Vex Mythoclast from my first run. Was pretttty stoked.
4
Nice, but fuck off(jokes). Man I think it was like 5 months before I got fatebringer.
1
Join the GB Destiny Discord group. Always people willing to help in there.
1
Do you have a link for it? Can't find it by searching.
1
I can't since I am at work. I know the link is in the clan post on the gb forums.
1
Between the chicken dinner and this raid, it's been a pretty solid week for Giant Bomb as an e-sports brand.
11
When I become an Space Emperor, remind me to decorate my home with Caesars Palace columns and frequent emblems of axes, dogs, cups, and the sun.
8
Dog Bottom everywhere.
3
What's stopping you now?
2
What was said after that comment about Minute Maid boxes that caused everyone to react so negatively?
7
I'm impressed with how the group is handling the backseat gaming from the chat/social media. It would infuriate me.
7
Folks who tweet at or otherwise message the SQUAD with what to do... why?
7
I tweeted at them betting them they couldn't land a grenade in his cup, but that was more of a joke than an actual tip, lol
8
Hahaha well that is just an amazing tweet! More tweets like that! Less like, "do it better!"
4
I DM'd Dan, since we talk pretty often. I said here are some tips, I never spoiled anything about any encounters. I think he read my tips for Gauntlets and for Calus. The baisc reason of "why" was because at that point they knew mechanics and Brad wasn't fully helping them understand how they could do those mechanics better. For example, I said "don't be afraid to use your super in the throne room cause you won't need it on Calus" and it was it night and day difference in how well they survived going foward.
Edit, spelling
3
Exactly, Brad wasn't very helpful in telling how to organize.
2
Honestly, from what I have been watching Abby has to stop dying so much.
5†
And shoot straight. I love her but dear god her ability to hit the things shes looking at hurts me.
1
Part of the issue is her loadout. She needed to ditch that SMG for an auto rifle.
8
The sad part is that dan's friend told them that hours ago and they let her talk them out of switching.
6
I completely understand them wanting to complete it as a team, but they all sounded so tired and defeated by the end of the night. Maybe She and Matt (was he the other low level person?) could do their weeklies this weekend and gain a few more levels.
1
She needed to get rid of that SMG and go Auto Rifle, I believe she did at one point get an Auto Rifle, it was miles better.
1
I adore abby, I really do. But I’m 5 hours into this video and I watched all 7 hours of part 1 and her refusal to use Merciless on yellow bar enemies/bosses or even at all is mind numbing. She has full ammo, never uses it. Just auto rifles down shields! It’s the best gun in the game and melts everything in 3 shots!
Gah! I was even watching a little bit of Jeff’s stream and he just punched everything! Gah!! And I haven’t seen anyone else’s but I assume Dan is just running around picking up scopes!
Gahhhhh!!!!!!
5
Shit they've already done 2 in less than the time it took them to do gauntlets! My group had a ton of trouble with dogs, even knowing fully well to do it, so I'm pretty impressed with GB.
Maybe a night to sleep on their first day of raiding kind of gave them a clearer picture as to how to operate.
4
[deleted]
-9
I would bet the only thing they "cheated" at is maybe what types of weapons were better than others. It doesn't seem like they cheated at the raid mechanics at all.
3
Well...
2
imo they should stop here, than get together next tuesday and blitz through all the powerful engrams
4
Their schedules don't work for all of next week Jeff mentioned.
7
ah didn't catch that part. that sucks :(
4
It was more that it didn't work on Monday and their raid progress resets on Tuesday which means they'd have to restart.
3
Wait wait wait... if you don't do all of this in a certain amount of time, it resets? What the actual fuck? Everything I hear about this thing makes it seem worse and worse...
-1†
You have a week to do it - Destiny "resets" once a week when different activities are updated to a new round.
It's usually more than enough time to get a raid done, but when you're coordinating a half dozen people in two different coasts and have to stream it all...
Also, time to complete the raid goes waaaay down the longer it's out there. Step by step guides and sheer experience means what takes a newbie group 12 hours on week one might be six on week ten, or down to just a few hours for a group that runs it every week. GB is just a little underleveled, and maybe a but underskilled...
15
At a certain point if it takes you that many hours to complete the raid you aren't at a point where you should be doing the raid. Half of Giant Bomb is underleveled for it, half of them are playing badly, and they are trying to marathon it.
4
imo they should try in like 2 more weeks when everyone is higher light. it'll make every part of the raid way easier.
2
Their checkpoint resets Tuesday morning.
1
Guessing this replaces UPF for today since I don't see UPF listed yet.
3
I haven't seen that anywhere (yet, at least). They should be finished with it well before UPF.
2
Wanna bet 2 shines on it?
9
No, Dan
7
lol
9
Good lord
3
Hahaha
3
I wouldn't be convinced they finish before UPF, the dogs encounter can take a while, especially going in blind (my group got it after 5? hours), and Calus isn't an easy encounter to work out either.
2
They started ~9am EDT, will it really take them over 7 hours? That's nutso.
I guess, it also depends on where everyone is at.
2
Well it took them 6 hours to get through the orb part. So don't be too surprised.
2
everyone (except abby and vinny) are at their houses. UPF is dead.
2
The screen tint when someone dies is such a baffling design decision.
Meh, it's kinda weird to look at but it's definitely to try to really highlight someone is down since that carries a lot more weight than it used to.
Agreed. I always hated the giant "Last Guardian Standing" text in the middle of the screen when everyone in your fireteam dies.
The way the screen gets dark almost makes it more difficult. I’m watching Jeff’s stream and wanted to ask if it was a colorblind feature.
For me, the audible “Guardian down!” voice of the Ghost was enough.