Rethinking the Knicks Rebuild

TL;DR: If the Knicks keep this current rate of success up, and Kristaps Porzingis continues to assert himself as a superstar, it is worth discussing whether management should trade a first round pick to dump Noah's contract with the objective of making moves in the upcoming free agent class.

It's safe to say that coming into this season, expectations for this Knick team were very low. Many fans made clear that the goal this year should be to tank, so we can get a top 3 pick and build by stocking up on young talent.

Through the first 10 games, the Knicks have very much exceeded expectations. We're 6-1 in our last seven games. Many of our players are playing very well in their roles, and most importantly Kristaps Porzingis is cementing himself as an NBA superstar. Currently, the Knicks are tied for the third best record in the East. The Knicks ability to maintain the current level of play has some important implications for the rebuild.

First, as of now it clearly looks like the Knicks are not a bottom 3 team in the league. Unless the Knicks make an asset-gutting trade for a top 3 pick, or miss the play-offs and get very lucky in the lottery, they probably won't have a top three pick. This limits the level of talent we would be able to add to our young core in a rebuild.

Second, KP's current rise to superstar level, and his ability to sustain this level are also important. Porzingis looks like he can be a key piece on a championship team. Also, as we have seen, players of this level make a significant impact on convincing other star level players of coming to the team in free agency. This in consideration with the general appeal of New York City opens free agency as a very real option for completing a rebuild. Consider that Kyrie Irving had NY as a very real option on his trade list before we even knew KP could reach this level so soon.

The current bar on our ability to take advantage of the upcoming free agent class are the large contracts we have tied up in THJ, Kanter, and Noah. Of the three, Noah clearly has the least use to the team, but many view his contract as unmovable. However, a recent move may make it more likely that we can trade him.

Yesterday, Greg Monroe's expiring ~$17 million contract was traded to the Suns for Eric Bledsoe. Adrian Wojnarowski of ESPN reported that Monroe is not apart of the Suns rebuilding plans, and they are looking to trade or by him out.

With the Knicks looking to miss out on a top 3 pick, and becoming a much more attractive free agent destination, it is worth discussing whether management should consider dumping Noah's contract with either this year's (or a future) first round draft pick for Monroe's expiring contract. We would clear up a significant amount of cap space, and try to get a current star in our line up through free agency.

There are benefits on both sides to a discussion on whether we should look to dump a big contract with a pick in anticipation of free agency. The free agent talent this upcoming season will possibly have some legitimate stars in it, including LeBron James, Paul George, Chris Paul, and DeMarcus Cousins. The problem is that most of these seem to have teams that they are more likely to choose next season (such as staying put, or going to LA).

If we keep the pick, we could get lucky and make the top 3, or get a talented addition in the 4-20 range. The most likely result is that we'll still be a few years off of being champion contenders while the rest of our young core grows.

Essentially, free agency is now a more feasible option for a rebuild, and there's a current opportunity to clear cap space to participate, but it will likely cost us a pick. I think it'd be worth having a discussion on what might be the better option.

Posted Nov 8, 2017, 7:49 PM UTC

226
nickmaz96•

Unless you're a piece away from contending for a championship, the answer is always no to trading away picks.

19
Court_VisionOP•

I feel like this is way too extreme of a view. You would turn down trading a pick at the lower end of the lottery with Noah to clear cap space to sign a guy like George or Cousins, if they expressed interest in coming here?

If that's your view fine, but I respectfully disagree, regardless of how far we are from a championship.

1
dufo318•

Have you not learned from the past 10 years not to trade draft picks?

11
Court_VisionOP•

To be clear, at no point did I say I think we should trade the pick. But I do think it's something to discuss and consider. I've been around for the last 10 years, believe me. Think of it at the extreme. If we have a pick in the 10-15 range, and a guy like Paul George or DeMarcus Cousins has expressed interest in joining our team this summer, we shouldn't look in to making that happen?

At most, I'm pointing out the importance of Knick's management playing it by ear until the trade deadline.

1
rmccarthy10•

We don't do shit... We let these guys play to the best of their abilities. We don't trade away picks. We don't sign any fading stars.

KP is 22 and Frank is 19. We sit back..enjoy the small successes..and chill the F out.

9
Court_VisionOP•

Two points to consider.

  1. Guys like Paul George and DeMarcus Cousins are far from fading stars. The level Porzingis is playing at coupled with one of these guys could put us in serious contention to compete at a higher level.

  2. How long can we sit back based on having to offer KP a new contract. At the end of the day sitting back and not making more aggressive moves might be a turn off for him. He seems like a competitor. There's no way to no for sure what his values are, but to me, not having management willing to make moves to make the team as competitive as possible is a compelling negative factor.

1
hubrisinxs•

Nah

3
brianxhopkins•

Hell no. You build with draft picks. Rookie contracts plus restricted free agency gives you 7 years of team control. Why would you give that up just to overpay for a decent starter?

3
Court_VisionOP•

Guys like George and Cousins are more than decent starters. We don't have many years of control on Porzingis. We don't know if he'd want to stick around under management that is passing up on moves to compete at the highest level. I personally wouldn't bank on it.

1
brianxhopkins•

But you think we can sign PG13 or Cousins with only $18 million?! We would need at least $25-30 million.

1
Court_VisionOP•

This is a point I considered, and hoped someone would point out. We would need to clear more cap, but that's totally possible with some of the contracts on our roster.

Hell, if it came down to it, and one of those guys had the Knicks on a leaked list of teams they were interested in, Courtney Lee is on a super-movable $12 million deal. He's much easier to move than Noah is at the outset.

1
brianxhopkins•

So basically you’re saying gut the team and hope a free agent signs here. You’re forgetting that we tried that exact strategy in the Summer 2010. If we strike out on those players, we are fucked.

It’s not a good idea to load up most of our cap space on two players. Rookie contracts are super valuable, and more easier and flexible to work with moving forward.

1
DatChicasScorn•

So basically you're saying you're really excited to see the Knicks on a similar path to the Pelicans and want to keep following their model?

Pelicans prematurely ejaculated after drafting Anthony Davis, pretending not to go "win now" by signing somewhat young free agents (Tyreke Evans) much like we just pretended not to be going win now by signing the somewhat young Tim Hardaway Jr.

Then they traded picks to add some more somewhat young, somewhat good players in Omer Asik and Jrue Holiday.

The Cavs followed a very similar pattern after drafting Lebron, and while Lebron carried the Cavs to some really exciting playoff runs, but it was not because they prematurely ejaculated. It was Lebron's greatness.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't want to follow those teams' models. THe players we add will decline when KP truly enters his peak years, and in the short term, it won't make the Knicks even a dark horse title contender.

2
Court_VisionOP•

I see your point about the Pelicans, but consider the Bucks. They drafted a solid young core, but not all of those players worked out. Jabari Parkers' injury left them with a significant drought when it came to having a reliable secondary scorer. They recognized Giannis is an elite talent that can help them win now, and traded a first round pick to get what they needed to compete. Hence, the Eric Bledsoe trade. That was a good move.

I think there are two sides to the coin here.

1
DatChicasScorn•

The Eric Bledsoe trade hasn't proven to be a good move at all. I don't know how pointing out that the Bucks made the trade means anything when you haven't seen the results of it. The Bucks' problem is that they didn't tank except the one year when they drafted Jabari Parker. As a result, all their players were mid-round picks and haven't paid off. The fact that they drafted Giannis makes up to a great degree for those errors, but just because your good luck offsets your mistakes, doesn't make them not mistakes.

2
Court_VisionOP•

What I have seen is Giannis shoot 64% from the field and score almost 30 points only to lose the game because Middleton and Brogdon (the secondary scorers) had terrible shooting nights.

I've also seen Eric Bledsoe score 20+ points over the last two years (and kill the Knicks).

Come play-off time, that team can't afford their secondary scorers to fade in a series with limited games. They went out and made a move that makes sense. What did they lose at the end of the day? Monroe, who doesn't add nearly as much on the court, especially to their needs. They also lost a draft pick, which shouldn't be too great if it falls in the protections.

EDIT: I also would like to add that I disagree about Brogdon, aa mid-round pick, not paying off. The guy won rookie of the year, and he's passed my eye-test. He's a good player.

1
DatChicasScorn•

So what you're saying is the team has a talent deficit. That's obvious! What adding players like Bledsoe does is guarantee it will always have a talent deficit. It's like taking out a loan. Does taking out a loan actually make you richer? No. It gives you more short term cash, but in the long run, you lose money.

So sure, the Bucks if the Bledsoe trade works out might have a 50/50 shot of advancing in the playoffs, but in 2 years when his contract expires, are they gonna give a 29 year old with every red flag for a short career a long term contract? Meanwhile, that draft pick you traded is cost controlled and if he pans out, will be in his prime for another 7 or 8 years.

If he doesn't pan out, you're in the same place you would have been when Bledsoe's contract expired and might have one more playoff series win.

So you're absolutely right that the Bucks have a talent deficit issue right now, and it's not unlike hte Knicks where they didn't bother trying to maximize the talent they added during down years. But the solution isn't to make fewer investments in their future. It's to make more.

I like thinking of NBA players like food. They get old and lose value very quickly. Winning a title is the equivalent in this metaphor of having enough food to feed an entire village. How do you go about accomplishing that? do you sell all your land to buy pastrami sandwiches and then hope you come into more money later on so that you can buy the rest of the sandwiches you need to make your feast?

No, because the pastrami sandwiches will go bad before that happens, and how is that gonna happen anyway when you have no more land to invest in? No, the right choice is to use your land productively... to invest in it. Maybe those investments won't work out, but at least they have a chance to work out whereas you know those pastrami sandwiches are gonna rot within a week or so.

1
suckerNYKfan•

Absolutely not. Even if we don’t get a top pick, we hold on to it, and take a shot. We could stumble upon someone important, adding another player to our young core. Let the bad contracts expire and then let’s play in free agency.

1
bofosh0•

I agree with your assessment that we've accidentally become too good, making it hard for us to improve our roster without going through the draft. That being said trading away our first round pick just for the chance to sign only one more player to this team isn't worth it. We're more than one player a way and we have no guarantee that we'll find them in free agency.

1
4element183•

No changes or loss of draft picks and I'm not sure how but I'd love to see Jabari Parker in a Knicks uniform. He has a terrible injury history and will cost a bundle but I always liked the way he played off Giannis (for that short time) and could see him next to KP.

1

Not the 2018 pick, not the 2019 pick, maaaaybe the 2020 pick IF we actually show some consistency throughout this season and make the 8th seed or are contending for it down to the last game. I do think you need to build through free agency and trades as well as drafting but let's not jump the gun this team is not there yet

1