Source
r/researchchemicals•
hypnagoggle

DEA Scheduling All Fentanyl Analogs

From here: http://freebeacon.com/issues/dea-to-schedule-all-fentanyl-analogues-to-aid-in-fight-against-traffickers/

The Drug Enforcement Agency will designate all illicit analogue forms of the powerful opioid fetanyl as a schedule one drug on an emergency basis, the Department of Justice announced Thursday, equipping the agency to more effectively combat a major contributor to the swelling opioid epidemic.

Fentanyl, as well as a number of powerful derivatives like carfentanil, was already a scheduled substance under the Controlled Substances Act (CSA). Scheduling is the process, set up by the CSA, by which drugs are classified "depending upon the drug's acceptable medical use and the drug's abuse or dependency potential." Schedule one drugs have high potential for abuse and no redeeming medical or industrial use. Fentanyl itself, which is sometimes prescribed as a painkiller, is a schedule two drug.

However, overseas producers of fentanyl often seek to dodge U.S. regulations by making small changes to the molecular structure of the substances they ship to the United States. This creates fentanyl analogues not technically scheduled but which still produce the same powerful and dangerous high.

Previously, one DEA official explained, the administration had been playing "whack-a-mole," prosecuting such cases under the Federal Analogue Act. That act permits prosecution for the trafficking of drugs which are "substantially similar" to those scheduled under the CSA. However, each prosecution requires individual expert testimony, making the process cumbersome and resource consuming for the DEA and federal prosecutors.

The new move, spurred by the increasingly dire circumstances of the opioid epidemic, means that the DEA will schedule all synthetic fentanyl derivatives en masse, easing arrest and prosecution burdens substantially.

"President Trump has made it a cornerstone of his presidency to combat the deadly drug crisis in America, and today the Department of Justice is taking an important step toward halting the rising death toll caused by illicit fentanyls in the United States. By scheduling all fentanyls, we empower our law enforcement officers and prosecutors to take swift and necessary action against those spreading these deadly poisons," said Attorney General Jeff Sessions.

Fentanyl, which is 50 times more powerful than heroin, was the number one cause of drug overdose death in 2016, accounting for approximately forty percent of said deaths. Drug overdose death is the leading cause of injury death in the United States, and the leading overall cause of death among Americans under 50.

"Today's action represents just one step in the ongoing fight to battle the opioid epidemic," said Acting DEA Administrator Robert W. Patterson. "DEA is committed to using all of its tools to aggressively fight and address the opioid crisis and growing fentanyl problem plaguing the United States."

The scheduling will go into effect 30 days after DEA officially publishes its notice of intent, and will remain in effect for at least two years, with an option for an additional year if certain conditions are met. Sessions called on Congress to "do their part by permanently scheduling these lethal substances."

The new policy echoes proposals by the President's Commission on Combating Drug Addiction and the Opioid Crisis, which issued its draft final report last week. The commission, chaired by Gov. Chris Christie (R., N.J.), called for enhancement of federal sentencing penalties for distributing fentanyl and its analogues, as well as the express targeting of drug organizations which distribute fentanyl and enhanced detection measures for use by U.S. Customs and Border Protections and the U.S. Postal Inspection Service.

I guess they'll try to put a blanket statement into the schedule like they have for things like cathinones?

Posted Nov 10, 2017, 2:53 AM UTC

7590
Lvl80Autodidact•

Hopefully this will get vendors to stop carrying fentanyl analogs so this way we can get our other chems with less of the governments noses up our asses..

57
hypnagoggleOP•

Wouldn't that be a rosy ending!?

I fear that increased funding for scrutinizing parcels may make it harder to import any kind of powder, with fentalogs ostensibly being the target. But who knows.

22
Lvl80Autodidact•

Hopefully they don't try and stuff a bunch more cops in each post office. Idk if they would even fit and not because the pigs are fat n porky -but because there are thousands and thousands of packages that come in and out a day, those packages take up so much room. I personally don't see it happening. I kinda laughed when i saw them say they will have advanced methods of checking packages. Theres so many packages, it just seems like an impossible task. It would be easier to try and convince a red neck dip shit on the science of climate change XD let's hope I am right :0

3
hypnagoggleOP•

What's interesting to me is that countries like Canada, Japan, and especially Australia have a reputation for letting very little contraband through. So, they have the technology to achieve that and the US doesn't? Something fishy about that.

2
Tired8281•

Are you kidding? West coast Canada is fentanyl ground zero. Most of the fent coming into the US arrived in Vancouver first.

5
notforhumanconsumpti•

Tons of contraband still gets through. You can't catch em all. For everyone they catch I'm sure hundreds go unnoticed.

2
Lvl80Autodidact•

Its a CONSPIRACY! :0 But fr thats fishy AF

1
YourOriginalFace•

Ha, ha! "rosy ending!?" 🏵

1
notforhumanconsumpti•

Vendors honestly don't give a fuck about our health or legislation or anthing but... $$$. They label the bags "NFHC" in case we fall dead. They only care about $$$.. they're a business. All of them.

6
Lvl80Autodidact•

True

1
cupajaffer•

Nfhc stands for what?

1
ticklemuffins•

Not for Human consumption.

4
notforhumanconsumpti•

Not for human consumption

2
hypnagoggleOP•

Well, I do think that flavor of unscrupulous lab exists out there. And those are probably the types to sell fentalogs, since the profit potential is so high.

But I also think there are some sellers that care, and don't want to see anyone get hurt.

As a comparison, Sears sells hammers even though they know a hammer can be used to cave in someone's skull... Well, that analogy breaks down since the hammer can't really send you into euphoric oblivion if you lick it...but hopefully you get my drift.

1
JJones0207•

Funny as hell, but yes I get your drift lol

1
JesseAT•

Imagine them all carrying O-DSMT

2
soulboner1•

Wouldn't that be awesome. Loved my lab work with that stuff.

1
Argenteus_CG•

Does anyone else think this sets a worrying precedent? If they can just schedule all fentanyl analogues, they can mass schedule anything; tryptamines, phenethylamines, psychedelics, all drugs at once...

12
Boofthatshitnigga•

I’m sure it may get to that point at sometime. I mean, all the popularpsychs for example, like lsd and psilocybin and DMT are all scheduled, but still we have all the analogs and variants of them that are able to slip through, at least for now.

7
LordDongler•

They only go after deadly drugs like this. Much lower standards considering the burden of proof on their part.

2
ticklemuffins•

Ironic considering Marijuana is Schedule 1.

4
M_G•

Different case imo, as marijuana was scheduled long ago.

5
Argenteus_CG•

If that were true, none of the tryptamines would be illegal.

1
LordDongler•

But it is true, and I said that deadly drugs have a lower burden of proof to ban, not that harmless psychedelics aren't banned.

1
hypnagoggleOP•

It's easy to look at that way, with the in-depth knowledge you have of these chems as a member of this community.

However, in practice it seems that it's been very difficult to achieve that in US politics without something that provides a really strong case, like with fentanyl. A lot of people dying will clearly do it.

And things are changing a bit, imo. The last few laundry list RC bills that punchable Charlie Dent has introduced have been abandoned or gutted. I think in this climate, bills that go after arbitrary complex chemicals are being perceived, rightly so, as politically ineffective.

And sometimes members of congress see that restricting compounds can hamper institutional and pharmaceutical research. That counter argument, believe it or not, can carry a lot of weight. Probably more due to the pharmaceutical half, and prolly cause they have unbelievable lobbying power.

2
M_G•

They don't really seem to care unless they kill people.

1
clonazedamn•

Yes, that's exactly where I think this is heading.

Hopefully this isn't an end to the clearnet rc scene.... otherwise back to the onion patch for the brave.

1
Argenteus_CG•

If it's illegal anyway though, the RC scene will almost entirely disappear. While I'd still want them, the majority of the market for RCs is due to their perceived legality. There aren't very many of us who want RCs BECAUSE they're unexplored.

2
hypnagoggleOP•

Eh...I wouldn't worry about that just yet. The clearnet scene has gone through many, many ups and downs over the years.

It's really more about where the political pendulum is.

If the administration cares less, sellers start coming out of the woodwork. If a new administration comes in with a heavy crackdown, they all squirrel away.

1
clonazedamn•

That makes alot of sense.

Now it's just the waiting game, I suppose.

1
MyNoseIsStuffy•

They didnt mass schedule all opiods you idiot just fentanyls

0
Argenteus_CG•

So? That doesn't mean they couldn't mass schedule all opioids. They won't, but they could. It's ridiculous for them to be able to schedule vague groups of drugs, rather than having to specify what drug(s) they're scheduling, specifically.

1
MyNoseIsStuffy•

They can’t

1
Argenteus_CG•

We didn't know before today they could mass schedule all fentalogs, either. They can clearly just schedule whatever they want, no matter how broad the group.

1
throwaway34441144•

Why don't they rather legalise heroin and subsidise the prices so nobody has a reason to buy fentanyl analogs?

11
NeuroLogicalRx•

This, I am fine with.

10
hypnagoggleOP•

My feelings about it are complex.

I have no love for fentalogs, and hate to see them hurt people.

On the other hand, scheduling is a blunt instrument that harms people severely in its own ways.

I hold out hope that our society at large can find a better way.

31
TwoManyHorn2•

I feel like the world in which regular opioids are scheduled and fentanyl analogues are not, is much much worse than the world in which they're both scheduled. As much as it's also the case that making a safe supply of regular opioids available to users would be a massive improvement.

11
hypnagoggleOP•

I'm inclined to agree with you.

What I want to be wary of is falling into the trap of saying, "Good, schedule that drug! Just leave the drugs I like alone."

12
TwoManyHorn2•

Sure, generally as a principle for recreational drugs that people like to use, I'll say make 'em all legally possible to get; impose a few access barriers on more dangerous ones. If it's easier to get LSD than NBOMEs and easier to get weed than sketchy noids then people will use the safer drugs just because they're there and (for the majority of users) a better time.

Shit like carfentanil that can kill you with a speck of powder floating through the air, though... That's a special exception case. There are additional concerns there that make this into a conversation about chemical weapons as well as one about drugs, at that point.

6
corkyskog•

The new law (technically not a law, just an EO departmental ruling. The law gives the authority, but whatever I digress) has no teeth.

Did anyone really think any fentalogues would be legal to purchase off the Web and resell (which is what this is all about)? I don't even think that was legal anyway. Anyone pushing fentalogues on the street isn't purchasing them legally or even pseudo-legally on the web as it is.

6
hypnagoggleOP•

That's a very good point. Selling fentalogs has never been particularly safe for the dealer, especially at the local level. If they want to get you, they get you.

But then, why all this hullabaloo? More propaganda?

2
corkyskog•

Both for political morality points and to make it seem reasonable when they start charging someone with 20-life for having a pg bottle measured to the microgram for personal use. "a drug the equivalent of a WMD" real quote from a real prosecutor, and that will be the standard quote going forward. Jury's will swoon over the opportunity to get one of those sicko high level Fent king pins off the market. Not understanding what the defendants really possess or his/her docile intentions for personal use.

It's about media and conviction rates. (Trust me my previous post wasn't a reassurance to anyone brave enough to dabble in that world). You paint the picture in the media, write laws against it, the general populace eats it up. They have stacked the jury box long before LE even is on your radar.

Drugs were illegalized and then portrayed in the media in a fashion specifically to keep the populace uninformed. This has been going on for decades, it's no different right now.

Just to see how crazy misinformed people are (just choosing opiates because they are the topic at hand) let's ask a couple rhetorical questions. Do you think the average person knows oxycodone is the same as percocet? Do you think the average person knows oxycodone is stronger than morphine? Do you think the average person could even name the chemical that we refer to as "Heroin". Do you think the average person realizes the addiction potential for equivalent doses of hydrocodone, oxycodone, morphine, diacetylmorphine are all basically the same?

I had a chat with a friend and couldn't resist some wankery and it went like so:

"I heard that there are some countries using an old opiate called Diacetylmorphine instead of oxycodone in pain management and have lower addiction rates than the US"

"So it seems like we should try that out here"...

3
TwoManyHorn2•

The fact that people can set up massive-scale opioid operations overnight with a single package of a chemical certainly has been a screwy thing for LE playing whack-a-mole. I heard from someone in a law-adjacent field, it used to be that busting a large operation would change local availability in the short term, and with fentalogues on the market that hasn't been the case.

But also, just plain more overdose deaths have been happening because of the difficulty in accurately dosing compounds that potent.

The fact that setting up such an operation is risky, doesn't dissuade the scumbags who realize they can turn over fast money disguising the stuff as oxy, heroin or other drugs.

1
notforhumanconsumpti•

They are legal, though....

-1
hypnagoggleOP•

This is a common refrain around here. But if you dig deeply into the conversations, it appears to become much more complex than that. I think we've always wanted to say I/II analogs are legal because it makes us feel safe, and because it's kind of true. But people have definitely gotten into serious trouble with them. There's a lot of gray area there.

(I didn't downvote you, btw.)

2
NeuroLogicalRx•

Agreed. It's almost like, anyone can make better decisions than this guy. Doesn't matter who ya are.

1
M_G•

This is easier than combatting the social problems the led to the epidemic (which is the SYMPTOM not the cause) I guess.

9
hypnagoggleOP•

You hit the nail right on the head. The politicians never seem willing to go after the systemic issues that fuel the drug abuse epidemic. Apparently that's too hard.

At least there are some voices out there that are making this point. They tend to be on the liberal side though...and that may mean this consideration will always fall on one side of a partisan divide.

3
Nolungz18•

Seriously.

1
notforhumanconsumpti•

I think the same thing will happen in Canada. There have been many many kilos of carfentanil and other shit found recently by LEO used by criminal organizations to adulterate their heroin/whatever.

4
Mandudebro902102•

Gotta love the logic. The drug war has failed horribly the more vehemently it's waged, so let's step it up even more!

3
trippy_toaster•

I feel bad for all the cancer patients who legit need it. Like the black market isn't gonna keep pumping it out anyways.

3
XxCherrypinkxX•

Indeed. Thank goodness I'm such a resourceful granddaughter. When my grandma got lymphoma she got extremely ill from the cancer treatment, and could barely eat. I would dose her with very small amounts of rsho, and this was the only thing that made her able to eat and sleep. She's doing pretty good now, going for her next check up in December. My granny is a badass though 80 years old still drives a stick shift lol.

2
throwaway34441144•

rsho?

1
XxCherrypinkxX•

Rick Simpson hemp oil

1
throwaway34441144•

yfw when you learn that in some countries heroin is given to cancer patients for pain with a high success rate

also best wishes to your grandma, hope she pulls trough, lymphoma isn't the death sentence it used to be and a lot of ppl recover

2
XxCherrypinkxX•

She is doing very well now thank you. She was pretty close to dying it scared the shit out of me. It was the radiation and chemo that almost killed her.

1
throwaway34441144•

Luckily the cancer died first :)

1
LordDongler•

Good riddance

2
Tokkotai•

There's another step in the logic of criminalisation of drugs which created the rising of the fentanyls in the first place.

2
ajn07141981•

I'm hoping this measure brings more benefits to the RC world in the long run.

1
DabbyRosin•

Good

1
mindbender62•

It sucks all around.. bath salts started all this... but then dent came... They can only find small percentage ..I been using mail for years..and have never lost a package..not even weed

1
curiosity36•

This took a really long time.

1
XxCherrypinkxX•

"Fentanyl, which is 50 times more powerful than heroin, was the number one cause of drug overdose death in 2016, accounting for approximately forty percent of said deaths." Yet is considered a schedule 2 drug? Gotta love how the government likes to pick and choose what drugs are more beneficial for their (and drug companies) pockets. It's so funny how heroin has no medicinal use and is a schedule 1, yet fentanyl is 50 times stronger, and kills more people but is considered a schedule 2? Thank you oh wise and powerful government! What on earth would we do without?!!! If it wasn't for you oh powerful government I wouldn't be able to get prescribed my methamphetamine. Without that prescription who knows what crazy drugs I would resort to! I might be forced to consume high amount of a schedule 1 drug like marijuana!!! Jesus what a bunch of fucking clowns...😒

1
throwaway34441144•

It's even weirder because in some countries heroin in something a doctor can give you a script for. Either for pain (usually cancer and stuff), for tapering off heroin if you're addicted (not super popular yet, but people seem to have an easier time doing it this way than with other stuff.. only thing I'm not sure is if you can get heroin maintenance therapy for ppl who can't seem to quit so they'd just get a script for pharma heroin... harm reduction and all...

1
zombilives•

i iv'es that pharna heroin, is called diamorphine on the vial, is a while powder well all the addicts inlyding myaelf stated that street heroin is better pharma diamorphine is an high really melliw, euphoric but miss something however diamorphine is given to woman pregnant women, is the epidural injection cancer patient at the end, and to oldschool addicts in swiss, holland and uk

1
throwaway34441144•

Because street heroin contains a lot of 6-MAM which feels better than heroin since they (the ones who make it) don't complete the acetylation fully. I suppose the best would be pure 6-MAM but that would be too expensive since you'd either need to selectively acetylate just the 6 position (hard) or separate it out (wasteful since if you want a lot of 6-MAM you don't want to do the acetylation anywhere close to the end so you end up with 6-mam, heroin and 3-mam (inactive) and have to acetylate the 3-mam/heroin again).

2
HillaryBinLaden•

its more likely due to facile hydroysis of heroin into 6-mam during work up or processing.

acetic anhydride is pretty cheap and easy to use in excess and an easy reaction to push to completion.

1
WildBird57•

I don't like the precedent this is setting for banning other drugs, but I am glad something is being done for the opioid epidemic, I have no problems with psycadelics and such but opioids don't really have any major benefits.

1
hypnagoggleOP•

I would love to see improvements in the opioid epidemic.

I fear this will have little to no impact. The people who are struggling have a taste of it already, and the resourceful ones will figure out how to get what they want.

2
WildBird57•

That's a fair point, but even a tiny dent in the epidemic is a good one

1
zombilives•

im really tired to say that the fault ia of the user and greedy dealers using fentanyl and fentalogues as cutting agent

1
mens-libthrowaway•

the DEA will schedule all synthetic fentanyl derivatives en masse, easing arrest and prosecution burdens substantially

By 'burdens' he means the inability to arrest and charge and convict someone for a crime that doesn't yet exist. lol.

1