Triple threat series:Rider Comment below who you think walks away the winner
Posted Nov 22, 2017, 9:14 PM UTC
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Awnser : The Rider who rides you the best ! ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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Ah that makes it even harder to choose doesn’t it haha
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Realistically though it can only be Medb.
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She is Rider? Hm? Maybe I should have made it a 4 way
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( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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Medusa petrifies Drake ezpz, thanks to her E-rank Mana and bad Magic Resistance. And cuz Drake has lowest waifu power.
In a straight-up fight between Ushi and Medusa, I give it to Medusa because waifu power to the MAX of Monstrous Strength and Ushi not really having anything to counter Pegasus.
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Hm always thought All three were good Waifu Material
But another point goes to Medusa!
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Medusa, because I will do anything for her. I will even fight snakes.
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Usually Medusa as has already been described by others, but if Drake had enough money she'd probably be able to shoot Pegasus out of the sky even with Bellerophon's armor. Afaik Golden Wild Hunt doesn't have an upper limit to it money=POWER effect.
She is also the cutest and the boobest, Francis is truly a Rider who excels at everything.
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Finally, someone with culture.
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Dunno how she would fare against Ushiwakamaru, but against Drake, Medusa can just use her eyes to petrify her (E rank Mana sucks)
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So unless ushiwakmaru can blitz Her Medusa would win
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I don't really have any particular opinion on who would win as I like all three of them equally but Drake and Ushi wouldn't do nearly as badly as people seem to assume.
First Drake. Yes Drake has E rank magic and D rank Magic Resistance but in the nasuverse all humans have some measure of magic resistance whether they're mages or not. Having D Rank Magic Resistance means Drake has Magic Resistance high enough to NOTE as a servant but it's not strong enough to completely nullify most spells. Why bring this up? Because regular mages are capable of resisting being turned to stone by Cybele for a time in canon, as a servant Drake would be able to do that for longer than any mage even before her magic resistance is considered. Remember E rank for a servant is still 10 times peak human!
She's actually really unlikely to be turned to stone at all. More likely she'll be stunned momentarily whenever she meets eyes with Medusa. That's certainly a disadvantage but between her EX luck and Pioneer of the Stars ability she's very likely to break out of it quickly enough to attack and force Medusa to move (thus breaking eye contact). Medusa is limited to the length of her chains and Drake uses guns after all.
As for Noble Phantasms normally hitting something as small and fast as Medusa on Pegasus with a pirate ship's battery of canons would be flatly impossible but there's a few things you have to remember there. 1 is of course Pioneer of the Stars again (seriously don't underestimate that). But two is that Golden Wild Hunt isn't something that really bothers with trying to hit something with pinpoint aim. It works by saturation bombing everything in whatever general direction Drake aims it with consecutive fire from Drakes ENTIRE FLEET. It's basically a boat version of a bullet hell game. Could Medusa drive Pegasus between the shots? Possibly, maybe even probably, but that IS going to be her prime concern in that situation. Additionally unlike a lot of Noble Phantasms Golden Wild Hunt doesn't actually occupy Drake main form of engagement meaning she's free to harass and try to herd Medusa into the line of fire while she's trying to dodge with her guns as she's more than capable enough a marksman to do so.
Next is Ushi
I admit I don't know nearly as much about Ushiwakamaru as I do about Drake that being said I can tell you that jumping puppy is a LOT more dangerous than calling her that implies.
To begin with Ushi's noble phantasm isn't actually "Hassou Tobi" but "Shana-oh's Wandering Tales" which consists of 5 separate techniques of which Hassou Tobi is only one. Among these is the ability to flash step like Okita meaning she can both dodge away and close in basically instantly. She also possesses the ability to teleport herself, her allies, and her enemies anywhere on the battlefield she wants for maximum tactical benefit thanks to another of the techniques of her noble phantasm. Yet another technique allows her to summon Benkei's body to act as a weaker version of Lord Camelot. (Yes that's kinda hilarious but it can apparently block up to B rank anti-army noble phantasms depending on her belief.) Finally there's Hassou Tobi which specifically increases her jumping ability on top of everything else meaning she actually has a pretty decent chance of just jumping right ON Medusa's pegasus as she comes in to attack and try to take her head especially since she can teleport it and herself wherever she needs them to be. She is canonically capable of combining the separate techniques into new psuedo techniques after all. And this is all on top of her just being really fast on her own. All in all Ushi is a servant that specializes in being ridiculously hard to pin down and suddenly coming out of nowhere to attack you.
So yeah, in an actual fight between these servants Drake and Ushi would actually put up much more of a fight than people seem to give them credit for and all have a fairly solid chance of victory.
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I love see this a solid breakdown of the combatants! Glad to see the ushi and drake love as well!
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Medusa can summon Bellephron so fast Arturia (who shoots down Iskander before it can move 10 meters at full speed) couldn't react.
Additionally, Bellephron is explicitly equivalent to a Dragon and plowed right through eighty percent of Excalibur Morgan. She wouldn't have to dodge Drakes shots at all, just meteor bash straight through them. Just being near it when it's moving, even under Shinji, is enough to kill a Servant.
Her eyes are at reduced power throughout the FSN novel because lolShinji, and in normal circumstances are the strongest of all Mystic Eyes in terms of raw power. It's stated in material books that those with less than B rank in Mana will be immediately petrified, and even if your rank is A you lose a rank in everything else just because she's staring at you.
Both times Medusa brought out Bellephron, Saber and Saber Alter's immediate response was to go for an Excalibur blast as the only counter.
It's not so much an underestimation of the other two as it is Medusa being way stronger than most assume.
There's also the fact that she can become Gorgon at will.
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Don't get me wrong, Medusa is an incredibly powerful Servant and has a solid chance to win herself when not tied down by Shinji. My post was just meant to point out that it likely wouldn't be the completely one-sided victory people seem to think.
As to what you said, ...maybe? It's kinda hard to say. Personally I think Medusa would have an advantage against Drake since ignoring the viability of Juggernauting through Golden Wild Hunt or not, I'm pretty certain that Pegasus can move faster than Drake's fleet can turn and a solid hit to the Hind itself with the charge will certainly destroy it and possibly kill Drake in the process. She could certainly just flank Drake's fleet and then attack the Golden Hind itself.
As for her ability to charge right through though I'm more hesitant to believe that, especially since there's no official explanation about how strong any of the individual blasts of Drake's NP is and that vague thing about it becoming stronger with her wealth. Not to mention they're both the same rank (A+ Anti Army) so one would assume they'd be somewhat comparable in power.
From a bit of research it seems like the Excalibur feat is in fair part due to Shirou's Rho Aias helping so it's not quite as clear how powerful the attack really is either. I also can't find anything about killing people just by being near it or Cybele being weakened by Shinji so it might be something from the VN itself in which case -shrug-. I'm pretty sure Shirou managed to avoid it by hitting the deck in a hallway in DEEN/Stay Night though so... ... well it was DEEN/Stay Night so who knows?
That's one clear advantage Medusa has for this kinda thing, the media she's appeared in generally has her abilities explained better than anything Ushi or Drake have been in because they're actual story moments. Also while looking up more stuff about Cybele for this point apparently Archer was actually being slowly turned to stone in the novel at some point so Drake might have to worry about that more than I thought initially.
That being said I still feel Ushi still has a bit of an advantage since she's faster than rider, saber, or especially salter even before counting teleporting which means she'd likely have more options to react anyway.
It kinda forms a strange little rock paper scissors
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As to what you said, ...maybe? It's kinda hard to say. Personally I think Medusa would have an advantage against Drake since ignoring the viability of Juggernauting through Golden Wild Hunt or not, I'm pretty certain that Pegasus can move faster than Drake's fleet can turn and a solid hit to the Hind itself with the charge will certainly destroy it and possibly kill Drake in the process. She could certainly just flank Drake's fleet and then attack the Golden Hind itself.
The Pegasus she summons has several hundred times the defensive ability of a dragon. And Rho Ais is explicitly mentioned to have only blocked around ten to twenty percent of the blast while Bellephron tanked the rest.
As for her ability to charge right through though I'm more hesitant to believe that, especially since there's no official explanation about how strong any of the individual blasts of Drake's NP is and that vague thing about it becoming stronger with her wealth. Not to mention they're both the same rank (A+ Anti Army) so one would assume they'd be somewhat comparable in power.
Rank doesn't really correlate directly to power like that, and even if it was Drake's is spread amongst twenty ships firing hundreds of shots while Medusa's is concentrated into one charging comet of death.
I also can't find anything about killing people just by being near it or Cybele being weakened by Shinji so it might be something from the VN itself in which case -shrug-. I'm pretty sure Shirou managed to avoid it by hitting the deck in a hallway in DEEN/Stay Night though so... ... well it was DEEN/Stay Night so who knows?
In Heaven's Feel she almost kills Archer by looking at him until Sakura distracts her. He had mana rank B and was halfway to stone in a handful of moments.
That being said I still feel Ushi still has a bit of an advantage since she's faster than rider, saber, or especially salter even before counting teleporting which means she'd likely have more options to react anyway.
Rider is faster than Ushi, actually. Even under Shinji she's supposed to be faster than Cu over distance despite being a rank below him. Under Sakura or Guda she's rank A.
And that's before she pulls out Bellephron.
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Are the quotes out of order? They don't seem to exactly line up to what your response is. Regardless I only have a few things to add to that though.
Several hundred times the defensive ability of a dragon is a really vague description since it doesn't ever state what the defensive ability of a dragon actually is, or in what way the pegasus is better, or even at what scale since dragons come in a range of power tiers. Considering without Rho Aias though she typically gets melted by Excalibur it's clearly not an insurmountable factor.
Golden Wild Hunt also isn't twenty ships, twenty ships is it's maximum number of targets. It's expressly described as "With the lead ship and her other Noble Phantasm, Golden Hind, acting as the core, it expands countless small crafts and exterminates the enemy with overwhelming firepower".
And Lastly, being conditionally faster than Lancer doesn't mean she's faster than Ushi. Medusa and Cu both have Agility A, while Ushi has Agility A+.
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Bellerophon =/= Pegasus
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Well, yeah, but it doesn't have a name and Bellephron is what she yells when unleashing it, so it's easier than saying "the Pegasus manipulated and boosted by Bellephron".
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Remember E rank for a servant is still 10 times peak human!
It is a value of 10. It is never stated what a value of 1 is.
You are forgetting that the threshold for "avoid petrification" has been confirmed and it is higher than Drake has at her disposal. She can't avoid it, simply put. I want to give her an unequivocal win but once the blindfold comes off she is super boned.
You bring up Pioneer s lot, too, but we don't actually know how that works so it is pretty meaningless to take into consideration. Like, she can do the impossibility and defy destiny, sure, but Medusa doesn't have anything that relies on destiny like Gae Bolg. Just saying she has Pioneer doesn't actually mean anything.
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I admit peak human is a bit of an assumption on my part. The explanation on the wiki describes it as "Considering "one" to be a "normal value", E is equal to "ten" and it increases by ten incrementally until reaching "fifty" at A". I generally assume that the "normal value" is peak human value since servants are always described as being completely beyond normal humans and mages are able to achieve superhuman feats with magic. But that is just an assumption on my part.
As for Pioneer of the Stars, it doesn't actually say anything about Destiny. It says "All difficult voyages and challenges which are considered "impossible" turn into "events that can be realized"" It's also directly compared to the Miracle skill so I take it to be pretty powerful especially since it's rank EX. If I've learned anything about fate it's that servant abilities can be pretty broken.
That being said that is just how I take things, I have no idea what it actually does either since I'm not Nasu.
Like I said before I'm not here to say who would win, just to point out that assuming Medusa would absolutely win might be jumping the gun a bit.
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The defying destiny part is her Luck; that parameter measures one's ability to defy destiny, and that is all her EX Luck is capable of doing.
EX means something is off the charts good for a specific thing, but that doesn't mean that thing is actually useful. If somebody has Nosepicking EX it won't help in a fight, y'know? Pioneer is some conceptual thing about how she is a turning point in human history, but it doesn't really do anything. I have seen it interpreted as plot armor, but as far as I know that has never actually been described.
I do agree that giving Medusa a definitive victory is too much, but the other two really are sorely outmatched. She's one of the strongest Riders in the franchise.
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After watching Heaven's Feel, Medusa captures my vote.
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The one that knows how to cook best. That would be amazing.
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We'd also have to factor in the terrain for combat.
Assume a Grail War upon a body of water, with the three combatants battling atop a flotilla of boats and small rocks.
Drake will initially have terrain advantage, utilizing her ship to its fullest, attempting to limit Medusa's mobility (assuming she barrages en masse before Medusa shanks her throat and births her horse). Ushiwakamaru will then take advantage of the terrain, using her Noble Phantasm to nigh-instantly seemingly teleport jump from rock to coracle to the Golden Hind. Guerrilla warfare against Drake, the biggest whale in the sea, is the initial course of action.
Assuming as well that Drake has plundered nearby municipalities for resources, this may drag out for a while.
The keys to this naval battle are whether Drake has cash, Medusa's Master is not Shinji, and whom Ushiwakamaru targets first.
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Damn great breakdown I always just assume drake is near water and has a decent amount of cash when she fights
While for ushiwakamaru I just picture her trying to board drakes ship while Medusa is the same or from Carnival Phantasm where instead of fighting she is “Moving” her master away from Sakura
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While I agree Medusa probably has the advantage strength wise, let's not forget about Drake's Pioneer of the Stars EX skill. From the wiki:
Pioneer of the Stars (星の開拓者, Hoshi no Kaitaku-sha?, localized as "Settler of the Stars") is the unique Skill given to heroes that became turning points in human history. All difficult voyages and challenges which are considered "impossible" turn into "events that can be realized".
So Drake still has a chance. She also had possession of a grail as a human (even if that was only in a Singularity and it didn't carry over when she became a Heroic Spirit), which allowed her to fight on par with Servants.
As for Ushi... a non-serious answer: Medusa is intimidated by Ushi's cuteness, as it reminds her of her two sisters, and she either freezes long enough for Ushi to do her in, or she runs away.
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I would honestly like to see a short little art piece featuring medusa freak out about how cute she is because honestly I think she’s adorable!
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You can explain how they would win any way you want
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Glad to see some drake love! Her and Ushiwakamaru don’t get enough love and appreciation
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Medusa, realistically.
As awesome as Golden Hind is, Bellephron (when not crippled by Shinji) is nearly as powerful as Excalibur.
And can fly. That helps avoid cannons. And small jumping puppies.
Medusa also happens to actually be stronger than Hercules physically if she uses Monstrous Strength to its fullest. Which turns her into Gorton who is fifty kinds of broken anyway.
Medusa, like most of the FSN servants, was hilariously nerfed in ninety percent of the war.
See this what I love to see A general break down of the servents!
But yea they were nerfed tremendously or flat out we’re not used to full potential Like Cu in my eyes could have won that war or at least went up against Hercules
Cu even as he was could have killed Herc twice by himself before Godhand secured the win according to Nasu.
This is the guy who went against Gil 1 v 1 and held him for nearly 24 hours.
That said, Herc himself was also nerfed not only by the worst possible class for himself but also Illya holding back any boost he'd get from ME.
Meanwhile, Arturia is under Shirou most of the time. If she was under a normal mage, or especially one like Rin, she could take Hercules in a straight fight.
Speaking of which, Medusa fights such an Arturia (though with Archer-arm Shirou as backup) and actually wins because she isn't Shinji nerfed.
And then we've got Caster, who spends all her fights dicking around or fighting people playing to her weaknesses. Only to later learn she and Assassin actually drive Herc off at one point.
So basically, every FSN servant should have been at least around the level that Hercules was at, and three of them (Arturia, Cu, and Herc himself) should have been even higher.
And all that's before you toss in alternate classes. Gorgon, Lion King, and Alcides would like a word.
The fifth Grail War was almost hilariously badly done compared to its predecessor because of the short time gap, but the Servants were ridiculously powerful.
Yea it was more like short skirmishes rather then a war
What Class would Hercules excel at? Saber?
The previous one always felt like a war But the resolution in 5th war was nice in the first two routes
Would love to get more of ur insight in other match ups in the future!
Herc's best class is Archer. His SF version had some level of parity with Gilgamesh himself despite being slightly nerfed there as well.
Considering what goes on in wars like Apocrypha and Strange/Fake, Zero wasn't done all that well either, though you can blame that on Waver and Ryuunosuke slipping in. But that's a whole 'nother animal.