Alright it is now time to decide who walks away with the Holy grail Lads!
Posted Nov 28, 2017, 10:46 PM UTC
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Babbage because he would turn everyone else into steamed veggies.
Seriously, though, I'm really curious as to how strong he actually is lorewise. His stats are great, thanks to Mechanical Armor and his NP is an EX rank reality marble. Dude's got to be powerful.
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Dimension of Steam isn't actually that strong in terms of raw power. It has a high rank because it's an oddity even for a RM, a crazy dream, a possible but unrealized future that Babbage clings to to the point it replaced his entire body. Imagine if Shirou lost himself to UBW to the point that instead of dying when his body turns to blades he just fully transformed into a big, talking sword.
It's basically a giant steampunk factory that makes robots and other doodads by the truckload (hence his Item Creation (Fake) skill), and also the fully realized steam engine that powers him and his creations. Mook summoners are always kind of awkward to figure out where exactly they end up on the power scale, because god knows the narrative will never let named characters get defeated by mooks. He himself is super freaking stronk (giant robot, duh) and can outpower just about anybody between his mech's "boost function" and Overload, but he's not really an accomplished fighter.
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Imagine if Shirou lost himself to UBW to the point that instead of dying when his body turns to blades he just fully transformed into a big, talking sword.
That's sounds hilarious, tbh
Babbage seems pretty tough from what I can tell, especially in close combat (you're a Caster dammit) but Medusa, Atalanta, and Arthur have NP's powerful enough to take him out.
I'm pretty sure he could take the other three pretty easily through zerg rush and ROBOSMASH.
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Has to be right There has to come a time where gets to show his stuff
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Proto arthur is ridiculously op (in fact many of the servants from Prototype are pretty crazy)
I would still vote for Atalanta because she's cute though
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Yea that was my bad should have put in someone who could be a dark horse lol
But I hear you in Atlanta she is prim Waifu candidate I forget her voice actress name but she is always voicing soft spoken/Cold beautyType of roles
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Is this supposed to be a huge brawl or is it a more traditional HGW, with stuff like secrecy and Masters being taken into account?
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Huge brawl in an empty city Masters can be taken into account but this is purely based off servants skills rather then the masters
If you believe a servant like Medusa would win with a master explain why that would be the case.
Use any method you want to describe how they would win
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Oh, well if that's the case, then Medusa stands a pretty good chance of winning, in my opinion.
When Medusa isn't on Bellephron, her Mystic Eyes can be used to petrify Kiritsugu, Caligula and Leonida pretty much instantly, Arthur and Atalanta may need a bit of time to have the same happen depending on the circumstances, like range, and though Caster can resist it, he'll have to deal with the constant pressure which will downgrade his stats, which is (I think?) one of his biggest strengths when compared to most other Casters in this situation.
Actually, can Medusa use Cybele while Bellephron is active? If so, then that's really bad for everyone else.
Rider's other abilities like her great speed (highest max speed in the F/SN HGW as an example), and her Monstrous Strength should let her deal with the ones who can resist her Mystic Eyes to some degree if it comes to melee.
Atalanta and Kiritsugu would be problematic to deal with, since Kiritsugu has his Chronos Rose, though I'm not too sure how it would stack up when used against high-class Servants, and Atalanta has her long-ranged capabilities, but if Emiya (Archer) is stated to be at a disadvantage when fighting Medusa, then I doubt Atalanta has anything of a higher level to bring to the table, and she definitely has worse defenses than him. And there's also the fact that if this is in an empty city, Medusa should have plenty of places to run if she doesn't have Bellephron out when Atalanta uses Phoebus Catastrophe, or just tries to snipe her.
I don't think that anyone in this war except Arthur really has anything to deal with Bellephron, but while Arthur could deal with it like Arturia did in Fate, he has the seals he needs to worry about, and I'm honestly not sure if fighting Medusa in this kind of situation would let him qualify for enough of them.
tl;dr Saber: liable to get petrified, seals might fuck him over. Lancer: ded from petrification. Archer: liable to get petrified, doesn't have anything to deal with Bellephron. Caster: stats get nerfed, don't know much else that's relevant about him. Assassin: if she sees him he gets petrified, Chronos Rose might be a game changer, but doesn't have anything to deal with Bellephron. Berserker: ded from petrification.
So yeah, thoughts? I just wrote down stuff that came to mind when I was going over what I know about these guys, but I might have missed quite a lot of stuff
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Saber has Magic Resistance A, which combined with Mana B is enough to hold back the effects going by the fight with Alter. And he only needs three seals to get to Excaliblasting power. Medusa isn't an elemental, the battle isn't dishonorable, and the battle doesn't involve personal gain, so he should be able to in this scenario.
Medusa can use Cybelle while on Bellephron. It isn't even something she has to activate, her NP is the headband supressing them.
Kiritsugu would die the moment she saw him, having an E rank in Mana. Chronos Rose isn't much use in that case. Also Bellephron and she's retardedly fast anyway.
Atlanta can pump out some heavy hits if Cybelle isn't on the table (though Medusa can petrify a B-rank at range), but Bellephron has enormous defensive capabilities and would fly through it.
That's all I can think of, and most of it is based on their profiles, so let me know if it seems off.
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Huh, didn't know that Magic Resistance was a factor as well. Looking at the wiki, the description says that it's just the Mana stat that matters, but I'll take your word for it. However, Saber Alter still had A++ Mana and B Magic Resistance, so I'm pretty sure that Arthur would still be affected more than she was. Seeing as how Emiya (Archer) was pretty much instantly frozen and was part-way turned to stone before he had a chance to react when she used them on him, and he had Mana B and Magic Resistance D, I'd say that Arthur is more akin to that than what happened with Saber Alter.
Talking about Excalibur for a moment. I'll just go through the list on the wiki so see which seals I think would apply. The battle wouldn't necessarily be 1-on-1, since this is a huge brawl between seven Servants, but if this is the final battle then it'd be fine (though I'm not sure if Pegasus would count, probably not?). The battle wouldn't be inhumane, from what's been told. Not sure if the fight would necessarily be honorable, but I'll give that one a pass.
Not sure if I agree with two of the ones you mentioned. The battle would definitely be for personal gain, since all of this is for the grail, and I think it's possible (though kind of unlikely) that the Pegasus might be able to qualify as an elemental, since it's the first of a Phantasmal Species with a lot of mystery behind it, and it's said that some Phantasmal Species can advance to become an elemental. Including the ones I mentioned above, it's possible that as few as 2-4 seals might be unlocked, depending on when the fight happens and if the Pegasus can be called an elemental. That's really few seals, and I'm not sure if it'd be enough to win, personally. Of course, there are the other seals, so who knows really.
The reason why I asked about Cybele+Bellephron was mostly because it's been said that there are indeed Masters involved in this, though they're just a power supply. As such, the strain of two Noble Phantasms might be too much for Medusa's Master, so they might not be able to be used concurrently.
Kiritsugu is an Assassin with A+ Presence Concealment, so I think he should have the opportunity to get a hit off on Medusa, or really anyone, and with Chronos Rose he might be able to finish someone off before they even get to react, if it's as powerful as I think it is. I believe he shouldn't be discounted immediately.
And yeah, Atalanta seems about right. Though one thing that I think could also be relevant is that Cybele also works on objects and weapons, so that's another factor to take into account in all of this.
Overall I'd say that Medusa's best chance to win would be engaging Arthur without Bellephron, with an unleashed Cybele, and just try to stall until Arthur is petrified enough for her to take him down. If she decides to use Bellephron, Arthur will have the advantage. That sound about right?
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No in fact this was what I wanted to see an actual breakdown of people discussing on which servant would walk away the winter and you did that phenomenally
But I clearly underestimated medusa being super broken apparently she’s like crazy strong and I was trying to avoid putting superstrong service into this and actually just have a bunch of mid card guys brawl haha
As you put it I see it as a rock paper scissors match with Arthur somehow coming out on top either due to his own skills or he protagonist his way to win
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Saber- The strongest member we have evr seen of the strongest class
Archer- A very strong and good ranged attacker
Lancer- A defensive counterattacking tank
Rider- A divine monster and, again, one of the strongest of her class we have evr seen
Caster- A physically strong beatstick
Assassin- A chump that isn't even a Heroic Spirit, can't be summoned for this theoretical Grail War to begin with, and can't actually do shit to most other Servants
Berserker- An actual nightmare, but only in a populated area, and as this is a brawl with no civilians he has absolutely no standing whatsoever
Three of the cavalry classes go down absurdly easily because they suck ass. Leonidas is good on the defensive but would fail horribly to actual make any kills. It is down to Atalante, Medusa, or Arthur, but I would strongly bet on Arthur.
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Wait Medusa is strong? She goes down easily in FSN
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She is obscenely strong. Cu is even stronger. And Gil, who gets shanked by a highschooler. How well someone fairs in a dtory does not necessarily reflect their actual ability.
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I mean in UBW she got beat by Souichirou Kuzuki (Granted with Reinforce from Caster but still...) while Blood Fort was up.
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You mean like how Artoria, strongest Servant of the strongest class and the best melee combatant in the War beaides Heracles, was also about to be one-shot? Kuzuki is just bullshit when he has magic hands, but it only worjs the first time as a surprise attack.
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She can kill everyone but Babbage and Arthur by taking off her headband and her horse can murder Servants by being close to them.
All of the original FSN servants were massively nerfed in the war for basically all of it.
Cu was hobbled by being in Japan and Kirei's stupid CS
Emiya spends two of three routes hacked up by Saber and half of UBW without a Master.
Assassin isn't even fully summoned.
Medea is always being taken advantage of (lol) by people never fighting her fairly.
Saber is hooked up to Shirou.
Medusa is hooked up to Shinji, the only master worse than Shirou.
Herc is in his worst class and Illya is suppressing his buffs from ME.
True Assassin gets like one fight and then goes away forever (grrrrr).
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Not to mention we have yet to see a scenario where Medea actually has a master and so doesn't have to devote her time to setting up a ley line to be able to make sure she can continue to exist. Horrible situation for the single most Mana-intensive class out there.
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Yep. As of FGO, her younger version qualifies as one of the top ten mages of the Age of Gods, and her older self is even stronger.
Benefits of being taught by a literal goddess of magic.
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Phenomenal breakdown!
Yea I was hoping to avoid putting in broken characters in this but I heavily Underestimated Medusa..was not aware she was broken lol
I’m always open to suggestions on other servants so please recommend some!
Haha Poor Emyia can never catch a break
Would like some more info on Berserker though He gains more power from the citizens around him?
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Caligula (that is Caligula, right?) has only one NP, and that is to drive people around him crazy so that a populated, peaceful city turns into an orgy of blood and violence as the citizens tear each other limb from limb. Without that, he is just a mad punchy guy.
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Yup that’s good old Caligula Well here I thought he was Just a brawler Hm wonder if Beowulf would have been a better fit to be in this..
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Oh definitely, Beo is very strong without being super broken. Caligula is one of if not the weakest Berserker, he is just very dangerous because his of his NP's collateral damage.
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Hard to decide; for the majority of these servants, we have yet to see much of their lore strength, or we've only seen 'gimped' versions of them. My Wildcard pick would be Babbage. BUT, if we judge by Feats that we do know of, though, I'd have to bring it down to Arthur or Rider Medusa.
I think Rider has a more impressive feat: In Unlimited Codes, she won the Holy Grail War WITHOUT A MASTER, defeating every other servant in the process. This is the same tournament that had Artoria, Hercules, Medea, Cu, and Gilgamesh. Additionally, if she were to be able to set up the Blood Fort prior as well, Arthur would be consistently drained of energy throughout their fight, while Medusa would be empowered. Not to mention Medusa's eyes as well.
However, Arthur does have some unique skills perfectly suited for fighting Medusa: Instinct and Magic Resistance. Arthur has B Mana, meaning he won't be turned immediately to stone but he will be slowly turned instead (Archer has B mana, and was petrified and slowly turning to stone); let's allow Arthur's magic resistance to bump this up to the next milestone: "A [Mana] or higher". He is not turned to stone, but he now receives one full rank downgrade in ALL of his stats. He is now slower and not as strong as Medusa (Monstrous Strength), but his higher endurance (than her as Rider) combined with arguably equal skill and Instinct he is able to keep up, and it's anyone's game.
In the end, it comes down to two factors: Can Arthur unlock enough seals to fully utilize Excalibur? Given that he couldn't when he was fighting a Beast, i'd say no, so the question then becomes: Can the only half unsealed Excalibur overcome Pegasus or, also, could he even hit Medusa with it while she is on the Pegasus?
The second question is: would the Blood Fort drain Arthur of power? If so, when combined with the Cybele (Medusa's eyes), then it is likely he would be overwhelmed, or simply out lasted. If not, the fight hinges solely on the answer to the first question.
My verdict? Medusa. Without Blood Fort, the fight is close and can be swayed either way; if Medusa gets even a little prep time and can set it up, then it would likely swing it into her favor. Even considering the fact that there is "no guarantee it would effect Proto-Arthur due to Magic Resistance", that's still another tick in her favor, another possibility added on. Additionally, she won a Holy Grail War WITHOUT A MASTER, and instead stole the power of every servant to sustain herself. Being that she is a life force sucker, she has this ability, and it is possible that she would take the power of other servants during the fight to empower herself, something the others can't do.
Arthur is strong, and can - in vacuum - be considered stronger than anyone else here. His parameters are high, his skill unbelievable, and Instinct A and Magic Resistance cover his weaknesses well. However, I have to make the allowance for Magic Resistance to boost Arthur's capabilities to deal with Cybele, when Cybele has been specifically stated to only make a check against Mana. Additionally, the arsenal of skills and powers Medusa brings to bear would, I feel, just be too much. If Excalibur wasn't locked away behind seals and he could blast it from the get go? He'd maybe win. If he had Avalon? He'd win. He'd be relying on his NP's to do so, but he'd win. But it is, and he doesn't.
Finally, Medusa is eligible for 6 classes: throughout the Fate series she has appeared as Rider, Lancer, Avenger, Archer, Berserker, and Caster. That's a LOT of knowledge to draw on, even if she can't fully utilize them due to class restricitons. Proto-Arthur is only eligible for 3.
I vote Medusa.
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Damn fine breakdown good sir I’d high five you if possible!
From what I’m seeing it’s coming down to either her or Arthur
I really underestimated her being so strong which is what I wanted to avoid lol
Any other Servents you could recommend for future mash ups?
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Hard to say; I think Atalante would be a good one to reuse. Mordred would also be good; she's strong, but not OP - the perfect representation for Saber. For things to avoid, I'd say any servant that has "Pioneer of the Stars" (Tesla, Drake, Da Vinci) as that skill is literally "the impossible is now possible", which you simply can't judge.
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Can Arthur unlock enough seals to fully utilize Excalibur? Given that he couldn't when he was fighting a Beast, i'd say no, so the question then becomes: Can the only half unsealed Excalibur overcome Pegasus or, also, could he even hit Medusa with it while she is on the Pegasus?
He can't, but he does not need to. Half is guaranteed, and half is enough to take down even Gil, let alone Medusa. Half-unsealed Excalibur Proto is more powerful than default Excalibur/stay night, and Artoria had no problem cleaving Bellerophon.
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Choose who you think would walk away the winner but you must give a reason as to why you think they would walk as the undisputed Champion!
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[deleted]
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Gawain, because you can't spell Gorilla without Grail.
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Wait hes not in there right? That proto arthur isnt it?
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yes
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Not too sure about some of their abilities but Arthur is pretty powerful. He can definitely take out Medusa for one.
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Yea when it came the saber round People were saying he was massively broken But also they said Medusa is broken when the right things are aligned together
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Medusa is hideously broken and would slaughter everyone here.
Except for Proto-Arthur.
Who would snap her in half like a twig.
He canceled out an actual planet killing attack with his Excalibur. He's basically Arturia but everything is turned up to 11.
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Truth I was trying to avoid putting super broken Servants in this but both of them won their respective rounds easily lol
Was really not aware she was so broken honestly And for who would snap her like a twig..well it’s gotta be my boy Leonidas! look at him the dude is huge! Probably has to walk through doors sideways cause his back his so big lol
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Of the Servants here, only Atlanta and Babbage have a high enough rank in Mana to avoid dying instantly to Cybelle, and Atlanta will still be petrified within moments of activation.
Even Babbage is going to lose a full rank in every parameter once it's turned on him and Medusa still has Bellephron to smash him with.
Arthur has B-Rank Mana on top of A-Rank Magic resistance, which is approximately what let Saber Alter resist it iirc. He also has Excalibur, which is many times more powerful than the blast that shot down her Pegasus.
So effectively Medusa could wipe the field with the others but come up short against Arthur.
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Is that the gil fight i see every once in a while?
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Yeah.
In Prototype, there doesn't appear to be an actual Counter Force, or at least it operates on different rules and doesn't care about people tossing around life-wipers.
Gilgamesh was legitimately about to end the world with his giant ocean, but that triggered the last of the seals and took Excalibur from its Anti-Fortress standard to it's full Beast-killing, world-saving EX-Rank glory.
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Medusa is pretty strong but in a head on contest with Arthur or OG Saber using Bellerophon she'd definitely lose.
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Anti-Fortress kinda fucks her over. She doesn't have any answer to that if Cybelle doesn't work.
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Nyanta because waifu
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Best reason.
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Gawain of Astora, warrior of sunlight
Flawless victory, no cooperation needed.
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Hey I know you're more doing these for fun, but this isn't really something you're meant to post here. This would be something meant for another sub
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Arthur.
Instinct OP.