r/civ•
Metatron

An idea for a leader DLC pack to introduce new leaders to take advantage of the new features in Rise and Fall

It was confirmed on another post that the Rise and Fall expansion will introduce 8 new civs and 1 extra new leader to be added to a current or new civ. Given that a lot of people on this sub would like to see more leaders (myself included), I thought I'd post an idea that popped in my head since reading the new expansion details.

Rebels and Revolutionaries DLC Pack

With the new Loyalty and Emergencies mechanics, a leader pack focused on historical revolutionaries would be a great way to bolster the leader roster with abilities geared towards these new mechanics and possibly add some new civs from underrepresented areas of the map that also aren't obvious choices for the expansion itself (like the Mongols, Inca or Ottomans).

There's little point in devising what their leader bonuses could be since the details of the new mechanics aren't out yet, but here's my shortlist for new leaders I think might be interesting additions. Keep in mind inclusion in Civ isn't necessarily an endorsement of the figure, otherwise Firaxis has some explaining of Attila the Hun to do.

America: We've already seen Washington, but Thomas Jefferson would make a good addition as the author of Declaration of Independence and 3rd President. Martin Luther King, while not ever holding office, was an enormously influential cultural and protest leader who I think would make a good addition.

China: Mao Zedong is the obvious candidate, but since he's been China's leader in the first 4 games already, Sun Yat Sen could be a contender as well since he saw the transition of China from dynasty to republicanism.

England: Stephen Langton was the Archbishop largely responsible for the signing of the Magna Carta after the conflict between King John and rebel barons. Oliver Cromwell would make a controversial choice, but he is ranked highly in lists of influential Britons and is definitely more well-known than Langton.

France: Napoleon Bonaparte is another obvious choice, but like Mao, he's been in several Civ games already. I'd rather see the Hero of Two Countries, the Marquis de Lafayette who played a role in both the American and French Revolutions and is more generally viewed with favor than Napoleon.

Kongo: This isn't quite technically a Kongolese leader as I'm not super knowledgeable of that kingdom's history, but I think Agostinho Neto could work as he was the 1st President of Angola who led them to independence from Portugal (and was a poet to boot).

Russia: The Bolshevik Revolution is definitely one of the most important events of the 20th century, but it's hard to justify putting someone like Stalin or Lenin in charge of Cossacks (as pointed out to me in a thread a while ago). There's no easy answer for this short of having the leader ability completely replace the Cossack as a UU (which is itself a little unsettling). That being said, Leon Trotsky doesn't carry quite the same baggage of his fellow Bolsheviks (to my knowledge) and while never the Premier of the Party, did assume leadership positions and an influential role in the early Soviet period before being purged by Stalin.

And here are some ideas for a new civ along the same theme:

Sioux under Sitting Bull: This one is actually a return of this civ/leader from Civ II, and his resistance to the US military and government policies of the time is legendary and tragic. I think I read somewhere that representatives of the tribe declined to represented in later Civ games, and if that's true, that's fair. But I do admit I'd like to see the return of Sitting Bull.

Haiti under Toussaint Louverture: He led the only slave revolt that successfully became an independent nation. I would also love to see a Caribbean Civ (Cuba would be great as well, but in keeping with the theme here, I don't think enough time has passed for Fidel Castro to be considered. Maybe in Civ XXVI).

Gran Columbia under Simon Bolivar: One of the most influential figures in South American history who liberated most of the continent from Spanish colonial rule.

South Africa under Nelson Mandela: This might be too recent to be included seeing as how Mandela died very recently, but he was a tremendously famous and influential figure for his resistance to apartheid.

Thanks for reading if you read through all this. I just wanted to get this out somewhere. I welcome any discussion on the ideas I brought up or if any of you have additions or ideas of your own whether to my theme or something different.

Posted Nov 30, 2017, 8:46 PM UTC

2530
Lugia61617•

I definitely think I'd favour Cromwell over Stephen Langton for England, personally. But then again, Cromwell would honestly work better as a separate civ. I don't think his politics really meshes well with the British Museums or theatre districts in general, what with his whole banning of theatre and all.

15
OccamsBroadsword馬鹿外人•
  • If Cromwell becomes suzerain of Armagh, he takes it immediately.
13
Lugia61617•

That made me laugh a lot more than it should have. xD Kudos!

5
c-donohoe15•

And it loses population. :(

5
TheCapo024•

Fuck Cromwell!

1
MetatronOP•

Fair point. Maybe his ability would modify it some way? It's hard to justify a second Civ off an English leader when the rest of the world is so lacking though.

1
Stiffupperbody•

Any pre industrial leader is going to clash a bit with England's special ability. I think Cromwell would make a great leader, although Alfred the great would fit better with the ability.

1
Lugia61617•

That's true. When I was thinking of making an Edward VI mod, I considered making it as a "Tudor England" civ more focused on England at the time.

But then again. Hojo Tokimune has an electronics factory.

2
pgm123Serenissimo•
  • One of the most interesting things Jefferson did as a President was the Louisiana purchase and the paired Louis and Clark expedition. His economic policies were pretty bad, but we can let that slide.
  • Sioux works. I've been pushing the Shawnee under Tehcumseh. There are some Apache and Navajo that make sense as well.
  • Haiti would be cool.
  • Fwiw, Simon Bolviar's country was only called "Colombia" (or the República de Colombia) not "Gran Colombia." Gran Colombia is a modern name to distinguish when it was bigger. I'd prefer they just use Colombia because (1) it's more accurate and (2) it ties in with the contemporary nation.
9
MetatronOP•

Jefferson would have done well with Washington's ability from V!

Tecumseh would be great to see as well. I went with Sitting Bull since he's one of the most famous, but North America definitely needs some new civs and plenty would fit that theme.

2
pgm123Serenissimo•

Sitting Bull is the most famous. I'm just hoping to get new leader.

2
Jeep-Eep•

Nah, make FDR be the new american leader instead of Jefferson, and give him special bonuses for crisises and dark ages. Or MLK, that would be cool.

8
MetatronOP•

FDR would def be a good leader for the ages mechanic.

6
samasters88Optimus Princeps•

Yep! Imprison part of your populace while at war, sounds interesting

2
MetatronOP•

Don't be daft. It's possible to recognize his leadership through the Great Depression and WWII which contributed to America becoming a true superpower postwar and acknowledge that he imprisoned his own citizens unjustly. The former has an obvious historical basis for a leader ability around the Dark and Heroic Age mechanic, and I don't think anyone is clamoring for an ability around the latter. As I said in the OP, a leader's inclusion in Civ isn't an endorsement of everything the leader did in power, and if you're going to draw the line at FDR and ignore other people mentioned in this thread like Cromwell, Lenin, Mao, or Napoleon, I feel like you're just being political.

5
samasters88Optimus Princeps•

What are we attributing to him? Economic prowess? The New Deal prolonged the depression, it was a market-self correction w/ WW2 manufacturing that pulled the country out of it, not an administration that was spending more than it made (not that it's stopped since, but I digress).

-1
DaTigerManAll hail The Motherland•

wew lad

4
Arkadis•

More great people would also be great and badly needed. Could be included in the same pack.

3
Treppich'STRAYA INTENSIFIES•

Hmm... I think these people would be good alt leaders:

  • Australia - Ben Chifley
  • United States - FDR
  • France - Charles de Gaulle
  • England - Clement Atlee or Winston Churchill
  • Russia - Lenin?
  • Japan - Toyotomi Hideyoshi or Oda Nobunaga
  • Rome - Hadrian or Augustus Caesar
  • Germany - Otto von Bismarck
  • China - Mao Zedong or Sun Yat-Sen
3
Jeep-Eep•

Attlee, deffo Attlee. We never see enough Attlee. Leader of the first Labour Majority, oversaw the creation of the NHS - hell, that would be an awesome ability, something to do with happiness.

He even looked like something that would translate well to the current art style

5
Thakrawr•

Im sick of Augustus. Diolcletion, Marcus Aurelius, or Constantine would be cool.

2
goesbyanyothernameClement Attlee civ leader pls•

Hell yes Attlee!

1
UberMcwinsauceAll hail the Winged Gunknecht•

Australia being in the game at all is a weird choice, imo, so I'd be surprised if they get an alternate leader on top

1
Treppich'STRAYA INTENSIFIES•

It wasn't exactly a weird choice per se, as Australia was one of the most popular mods on the Civ 5 workshop (on the 2nd page of most subscribed). Congo was also a popular mod, but not as significant as the Australia mod, but it still made the cut for Civ 6

Australia is also a very significant buyer demographic for Civ iirc, as is the same for Canada

1
UberMcwinsauceAll hail the Winged Gunknecht•

I suppose I can see why they'd add it for sales, that's fair. My thinking is that if I was listing "important civilizations" Australia would probably be around my bottom 10

1
Vahnstad•
  • India: Ashoka
  • United States: Dwight Eisenhower
  • Russia: Lenin or Khrushchev and Ivan The Terrible
  • France: Louis XIV
  • Egypt: Ramesses II or Hatshepsut
  • Germany: Otto Von Bismarck
  • Spain: Isabella I
  • England: Elizabeth I, Alfred The Great (and plenty of other options)
  • Rome: Enough options, but no Byzantine alternate leader (they should be a separate civ)
  • China: Enough options, but no Mao / modern leader
  • Arabia: Harun Al Rashid
3
anone8•

I'd love any of America's founding fathers as a alternate leader. Plus, America and England are pretty much guaranteed to get alternate leaders. George Washington for military, Jefferson could get bonuses for foreign trade or maybe a land purchasing discount. Franklin could have a science bonus (+1 science from a city center or one eureka for each era?). Hamilton needs a financial bonus^and ^at ^least ^one ^reference ^to ^Hamilton.

2
ZackyMidnight•

I really hope they don't ignore popular famous rulers just because they have been featured before. I want to play as scorpion not li Mei.

2
UberMcwinsauceAll hail the Winged Gunknecht•

I love the ideas for Sioux, Haiti/maybe Cuba, and Columbia. Sun Yat Sen could get some cool traits, maybe science bonuses when coming out of a dark age?

2
ezsea•

Ashoka for India.

1