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r/MobiusFF•
psiwar

Alexander Sicarius Taunt/StoneRain explained

Spoiler

After reading the MP sicarius schedule, I found this: "If you attack a Guardian while under the effects of Taunt, you will receive a painful counter-attack equal to your own"

So I watched Serin JP video of Alexander 5* looking for a pattern and I discovered 2 things about StoneRain and Taunt:

  1. If you are under the effect of Taunt, any damage to guards will be redirected to Alexander, and he will cast StoneRain twice (2x) for each time you damage the guardians (1 StoneRain for each guardian).
  2. Each action you take removes 1 Taunt counter (attack, drive, abilities without quickcast remove 1 counter from the initial 4).

Considering how nasty StoneRain is (inflicts Hex: Curse/Debrave/BreakPowerDown?), it should be avoided at all cost. I have some ideas if your team won't be able to break Alexander in the first turn:

  • don't use AoE abilities or attacks that may damage the guards.
  • If you are an Attacker:
  • Instead of AoE BDD or CRD, it may be helpful to bring SingleTarget CRD+BDD for clearing the yellow gauge of Alexander and applying debufs, while you help your breaker do his job.
  • Alternatively, you can remove your Taunt counter before casting AoE abilities with 4 actions: drive 1-2 times and tap-attack Alexander 2-3 times.
  • Don't use Cleave-Attack buffs (Garuda/Dadaluna/ShockCards/AoE-Monk-Sic) unless you are 100% sure to break or you have removed your Taunt counter.

What other strategies/recommendations do you have?

EDIT: Thanks to IJustNeedaAccount for suggesting that Alexander may not always counter with 2 StoneRains, but just 1 for each guard hit (AoE always hits both guardians, hence → 2x StoneRains)

Posted Dec 14, 2017, 12:31 AM UTC · edited

2075
iarley23•

I was thinking of playing defender on this one. Moogle suit with eisenfaust. First, cast a light taunt on the boss to remove the break buff, and hope for a first turn break on at least the boss, and then break the guards on the start second turn, with a broken boss. The other cards could be stun, slow, weaken or curse, or maybe a monk sicarius to help with the yellow gauge, not sure about that..

3
psiwarOP•

I also think that Moogle Suit is going to be one of the best defenders for this rotation. I think that dispelga double-taunt (light-earth) + stunga will be useful.

2
iarley23•

But dispelga is dark. And monk? You could cast dispelga and light taunt...

1
psiwarOP•

you are right... what was I thinking... maybe double taunt then...?

1
iarley23•

Just have 1 taunt lol, the light one.

1
Mawgac•

I wonder if good old Monk with Light/Dark/Earth would work with Amateratsu Dispelga, Taunt, and Slowga would work.

1
iarley23•

I have all those, I could try. I'll report back...

2
Mawgac•

I would appreciate that. Thanks!

1
Mawgac•

Any luck?

1
iarley23•

Haven't log in yet, I'll try in an hour and a half..

1
iarley23•

Was thinking of using gladiolus instead of slowga

1
iarley23•

Ok, I was just in a pug with a not-so-good breaker, wich is fine for testing. The monk dispelga build didn't help, I did cast dispelga, light taunt and Gladio, but even with this, the breaker didn't had enough JCR to break, so guard b triggered esuna and Alexander went stone rain on us with the beautiful debuffs. Then I used Amaterasu, and kept driving and casting Gladio and dispelga when necessary, and the party survived the last hit. I believe darewin's idea might be better for breakers that can't break on first turn I'm going to try that now. D says to use moogle suit, attack 4 times to remove the taunt, cast the light taunt on guard b, and then STUN guard b. Let's see what happens...

1
iarley23•

Yes. Darewin is right. Moogle suit build is great, you remove the immunity with the taunt, and then stun, or stun-lock if you have the orbs. Alexander won't move and guard b won't esuna. Breaker gets two turns to break.

1
marcianito102•

Im planning on using a party of 1 attacker, 2 breakers and 1 support. I will use Amalthea with Dark Shift, Dark Varuna, Dispelga and for the last card i'm still unsure between Trance or some form of BDD/CDD. With this setup i will be able to take down yellow bar on turn 1 and the 2 breakers should be able to break all the enemies; on turn 2 i can kill them all. That is of course if there are no Dark guards, i dont remember the elements of the guards.

2
iarley23•

Can you take the final hit without a def?

1
marcianito102•

I'm not really concerned about somebody dying, my main goal is to get the Sicarius cards to max ability level and for card exchange the rate is 1 to 1 for both Souls and whatever other component Alexander drops.

3
darewin•

Assuming his Breaker is MM, Amalthea has 40% innate Light Resist and MM has innate 30%. So he just needs to worry about his Healer. I think HOF WM is tanky enough to survive with Barrier and a Fresh Wall though. My WM MP Deck has 12k HP and 12 Def Stars.

1
iarley23•

WM is quite tanky, yes. What would be your build?

1
darewin•

I'm using the standard Lifeshift, Undying, KOTR, and Tyro on my WM. For the weapon, I have a Stafftuar with 37 mods (1600 HP, 5 Def Stars).

1
psiwarOP•

I think it is important to look at the breaker(s) and calculate if they are going to break Alexander first turn before casting Dark Varuna and other AoE BDD/CDR. Main indicator is the job/weapon used and the number of starting and queued actions. Each StoneRain not only deals damage, but debuffs you with some nasty ailments...

1
marcianito102•

True, i'm planning to host with a 2 breakers setup to ensure the breakers do the job.

1
blue2eyes•

The good old JP MM build for Alex (pre-nerfed) I believe we will get the nerfed version.

Master Monk if possible 5 jcr

  • Kujata (dark shift)
  • Legendary Ghost
  • 2 life orb starter

If you rely on RNG a bit / or have Aerith

  • replace one life starter with dark shock

Attacker needs to clear the yellow bar as much as they can to guarantee break

2
psiwarOP•

So they had to nerf Alex...

I wonder if the video shows the nerfed version or the original.

1
blue2eyes•

Can’t really tell but from the hex BDU(1st presence) I think it’s pre-nerf. The nerfed was only to reduce meteor damage and break gauge only by a little. We already have weapon mod so those who already mod monk weapon should break him easily.

Warning is that Alex has really low HP so Amalthea attacker should not cast double Dragon Zombie especially if there’s two attacker. Breaking is not really a problem, killing him before break is a lot more common.

1
IJustNeedaAccountNeo Ex Death rental: 2061 8ad6 0e46•

cast stone rain twice (2x) each time you damage the guardian(s)

Hmm... i have a feeling it's actually once per guardian you've hit... but since attacks are all either ST, or just flat out AoE, it hits both guards at the same time, leading to 1 AoE attack>2 stone rain.

Time to take out cones for science?

2
psiwarOP•

That is probably the correct mechanism. But I don't think you can target just 1 Guardian while Taunted (single target attacks will always be redirected to Alex). Thanks for suggesting it anyway.

1
IJustNeedaAccountNeo Ex Death rental: 2061 8ad6 0e46•

Well... as my last sentence mentioned, Cones can hit one guard and the boss, but not the other for some reason

I don't think there's anyone crazy enough to test it out with cones though

3
CatSidhe_•

So does Holy Cleanse not do anything?

1
psiwarOP•

I think it does, but I don't have Tyro nor Aerith to test it. We should try it tomorrow and I'll update the post.

1
CatSidhe_•

Also on Lifeshift and that one Terra Battle card.

1
psiwarOP•

It seems that HolyCleanse doesn't work. In the video, WHM casts Tyro 5* and it doesn't remove Taunt. It might be because he didn't unlock the HolyCleansing ExtraSkill... We should test this tomorrow.

1
Chris-raegho•

Thinking of playing this one as if I were fighting Adra. Break the boss first and then the guards. Hoping that attackers realize they can't attack the guards or we all get screwed.

1
MuteTiefling•

I expect a lot of lost materials in this rotation, just like in Adra. I'll probably just ticket up my monk card and be done with it...

1
draftylupus•

I mean...Master Monk shouldn't have a problem pulling off a break on Alexander + guards first turn, right? Bahamut Sicarius and triple tap? Especially if you've been modding Wolf Star. And if not, the Monk MP weapon with Exploit Weakness could do the trick. And factor in Amalthea with an Acheron lead for BDD. I figure I'll do that + WHM HOF and Heretic Knight.

1
psiwarOP•

Remember that Alexander has Hex BDU and if you don't have dark orbs and actions to break first turn, your team will be wiped (if you haven't, I suggest you watch the video).

2
draftylupus•

oooooh, good point. Didn't think about BDU. I honestly don't know, then. I know my MM has historically melted break gauges. And if I get two life orbs and can pop a trance, plus the Boost from KOTR, it's been no problem. Hmmm. I normally carry Primals Boon Light and Ultima Monk, plus Monk Trance and Regalia. If I dropped the Ultima for another card with life orb starter to guarantee a first turn trance...but enough. Lemme go watch the video.

1
gohphan91•

My Aerith breaker need only defender to remove BDU.

1
SvenHwang•

I have been using Iris FFXV on Ultima and Duncan on Ifrit 5*. They seems not to be affected by BDU (? need verification) so Iris may be useful for breaking Alexander.

1
Cryocancer•

I can already imagine the amount of messed up runs because of braindead attackers who will try to rush in with supremes..oh boy

1
theforkofjustice•

Amaterasu would be boss here.

1
psiwarOP•

We have to test if it removes Taunt from the party.

1
GandaMelgus•

even if it does remove taunt it doesn't remove the pacts. It might be usefull for "after care" in case someone screws up.

1
CetraXIII•

I will break with Lightning: NxD, 2 Aerith (4 JCR), and Dadaluma (debuff and break all)

1
Onas9999•

So does those support cards with free action costs counts too in reducing the taunt?

1
psiwarOP•

As I said, only abilities without QuickCast remove counters (you have to "spend your actions" in order to remove the counters)

1
Onas9999•

Woops didnt see that but thanks for clarifying

1
N7Valiant•

So... can't just cheese everything with MM cleave.

1
Javier91Nani!•

You still can if you're able to break alex on 1st turn.

1
drnick1106•

this boss shouldn't be a problem with MM, sic card and upgraded stargrasp/unbreakable if i am understanding the mechanics correctly. maybe i will bring a weaken card as my fourth

1
saintxlanford「2058 - d7bd - ec25」 5★ Aerith•

so if we use AoE yellow bar damage, is it still reduce the guardian yellow bar or not ?

after that is cleave attack still reducing red bar damage also or not ?

is 4 taunt applied every turn or just in first turn ?

if it is only the first turn how about we just 4 tap attack into alexander to remove taunt and in second turn we unleash all of our attacks into guardians ?

if guardians untouched in the first turn, is it still stone rain ? how many ?

sorry for a lot of questions :)

1
psiwarOP•

The problem isn't with the guards, but with breaking Alexander. If you don't break him or remove the appropiate Pacts, you won't be able to kill the guardians, even if you can damage their yellow/red gauge and break them.

The Taunt is applied only in the first turn, and, as I have suggested, you can tap-attack and drive to remove the taunt counters.

If you read the post, you will learn that if you don't damage the guardians, Alexander won't cast StoneRain.

1
saintxlanford「2058 - d7bd - ec25」 5★ Aerith•

thats interesting, what the other attack alexander do if stone rain not triggered ?

1
Nitious•

Man, no idea which DPS to run or if I should just stick to breaking with MM and Dark Shock for this rotation...

1
psiwarOP•

We will probably need more good breakers for this rotation.

Unlike Adrammelech rotation were attacking the guards just wasted time, with Alexander mechanics, a bad breaker/attacker can lead to a wiped party.

1
AxelRyman•

Alternatively, you can remove your Taunt counter before casting AoE abilities with 4 actions: drive 1-2 times and tap-attack Alexander 2-3 times.

Helpful since I tend to do this with my attacker, though I use my Yellow Gauge ability first. Just gotta swap it around this time. Question though, since Force cards have Quick Cast and don't use up one of your turns, will it not use up one of the Taunt Counters? Or will it be a special case and will do so?

1
psiwarOP•

It is necessary to "use an action" to remove the Taunt counters. Because Force-cards have QuickCast, they won't help for that.

1
AxelRyman•

Good to know, thanks.

1
zeradragon•

Aerith/Tyro would remove the Taunt debuff right? So if Support goes first and does the full round of buffs, then we can proceed as normal??

1
psiwarOP•

We have to test if HolyCleansing can remove Taunt. Tyro 5* was used in the video and it didn't remove Taunt. It is possible that the HolyCleansing extraskill wasn't unlocked, but I doubt that. We have to test it tonight to be sure.

1
zeradragon•

Apologies, i wasn't able to watch the video so didn't see that Tyro was used. But I thought that unless the debuff was octagon, it should be able to dispel any hex or square debuff...

1
JA1997X•

Taunt is kind of special, I think it actually works like a buff rather than debuff (no immunity cooldown, you can refresh it any time, it even works on total immune/perfect guard bosses)

2
zeradragon•

So then that would mean even Amaterasu wouldn't be able to 'remove ' it...this is an interesting mechanic to test...

2
Taborabeh•

Well my MM can break Ifrit 5* with his BDU in 4 taps if the yellow bar is full cleared and with weakness en-element.

So if the attacker helps me clearing the yellow bar my runs should go smoothly. I hope xD

1