Source
r/eagles•
RootLocus

False hope from Foles' 4TD Giant's game

Player Discussion

I see a lot of fans around this sub and r/nfl who have been pointing to the Giants game as a reason to have faith in Foles. But I want to take a second to point out how poor a counter argument that is.

What Does the Giants Defense Look Like?

  1. The Giants allowed the most points against in the NFC this season at 24.25 a game.

2)The Giants allowed the 2nd most passing yards against in the NFL at 252 per game.

3)The Giants allowed the most passing TDs against in the NFL at 32.

4)The Giants allowed the 6th most rushing yards against per game in the NFL at 120.8.

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Foles 4 Touchdowns Against the Giants

  1. Foles' first TD pass was a 3 yard dunk that came after a 32 yard PI call.

  2. Foles' second TD was a 10 yard pass that ended a drive which started on the Giants 20 yard line - thanks to a 43 yard interception.

  3. Foles' third TD came off a screen pass that went for 13 yards which ended a 18 yard drive that started after a blocked Giants punt.

  4. Foles' fourth TD was a short pass that went for 10 yards to end a 69 yard drive - 54 of those yards came from Jay Aajay's 22 yard run and a screen pass to Ajayi where he broke out for 32 yards. In that drive Foles threw an incompletion, a pass for no gain, and a 10 yard TD.

Posted Jan 8, 2018, 4:11 PM UTC

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Cajum•

So youre saying if our defense and special teams play well, nick will get us touch downs. Man go be negative somewhere else. Julio jones is good but cant score tds and our d line is gonna eat their qb and rbs for breakfast.

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alcatraz_0109•

Julio jones is good but cant score tds and our d line is gonna eat their qb and rbs for breakfast.

It's because Steve Sarkisian is a doofus, not because Julio is a bad red zone WR

He was easily the best red zone WR in 2016

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

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big_sexy_in_glasses•

He wasn't and hasn't ever been. Julio just doesn't get as many TDs as other WRs. He only had 6 total TDs last year...he's had 10 once in his 7 year career.

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Psuphilly•

Man go be negative somewhere else.

Fuck this sub. Seriously.

I'll never understand why a person with realistic worries, who is discussing legitimate concerns that the team is facing gets their opinion swept under the rug because they're not actively jerking the eagles off.

Who the hell in our secondary matches up with Julio Jones? That's a legitimate concern. Watch him do double move fades and burn our secondary. The battle is going to be getting pressure on matt early and forcing him out of the pocket and taking away passing lanes towards Julio.

Fucking Eli manning ate our defense up over the middle with quick slants. We haven't shown at any point in time throughout the year that we can actually defend against that.

We've legitimate scoring concerns on our offensive side, the Falcons did a decent job getting to goff, in not sure how Nick will fare if he has pressure on him all day either.

How is this eagles team going to fare if they have issues scoring in the redzone and there is unfavorable weather for our kicking game? We could easily be living and dying by our kicker in this game and the weather doesn't look great for a stadium known to have cold swirling winds.

Sorry that someone is confronting you with actual concerns to discuss, IN THE SUB dedicated to discuss these concerns.

This isn't reserved to make you feel good.

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Cajum•

Sounds like im sick of people being negative about our chances and you are sick of people who are getting annoyed by this negativity......

Im not saying you need to jerk off the eagles but every day there are posts about nick being worse than carson.. well no shit, but thats a concern for doug. Our job is to support our boys. Or you can spend all day thinking about the negatives without being able to do a damn thing about it. Or you think doug is gonna read your post and change the gameplan..

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Psuphilly•

Sorry, is this not the place to discuss the weaknesses of the eagles?

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Cajum•

It is. And can i then not disagree with it? Im jus sick and tired of people pointing out the same thing. We are worse with foles than with carson. Congrats we are all worried about it.

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

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RootLocusOP•

I'm saying people who have been defending Foles based on his 4TD performance are fooling themselves. I expect the Eagles Defense and Special teams to make this a game, but I am tired of hearing people defend Foles.

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Cajum•

I mean i think most fans are worried about Foles but cant we just save all this negativity until after we lose. It can pretty much only get better. Hes has more practice with the team, doug has had more time to see his strenghts and weaknesses and craft plays that suit him. Lets jus stick with our boy until we get wentz back

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RootLocusOP•

How come a conversation about the performance of our backup QB is negative? I wanted to point out that people are miss attributing his stats to mean he had great performance, I'm not saying I want the team to lose or that I hate the man.

I don't get why there is such disdain among sports fans for anyone who takes a critical eye to the team.

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biggulpshuh_alrightOfficial Conductor of the Sidney Jones Hype Train•

Just like pretty much everything in life, the answer to this falls in the gray area.

You have one side saying "Nick Foles is awful" and you have another side saying "Nick Foles is good enough to win the Super Bowl" when the truth is almost assuredly in the middle.

No, Nick Foles is not awful. He's proven to be a mostly efficient, albeit unspectacular quarterback in the league - by literally any statistical measure. Everyone concedes that the stats are a bit misleading, which is why he's a backup QB in the NFL.

No, Nick Foles cannot win a Super Bowl without the rest of the team stepping up in a big way. Nick Foles is not going to put the team on his back and win a game for us. Jeffery, Ertz, Ajayi, Blount, Agholor etc. are all going to need to take their game to the next level. The defense needs to play their best football all season and the Special Teams needs to do at least one thing great every game.

The difference between Wentz and Foles is that with Wentz, your whole team could play bad and you could still win a football game. Your defense could crap the bad and your special teams could give up a huge play and Wentz could still go out there and win you the game. Foles won't be able to do that - at least not to the level that Wentz could.

But, if the rest of the team plays at the level they have shown they can, then Foles can certainly steer the ship to 3 more wins - it's just a lot of things need to go right.

Making black and white statements is pointless. Everyone in this sub knows that going from Wentz to Foles switched the Madden difficulty from easy to expert. No one outside of the most ridiculous homers believes that Foles is going to be the Super Bowl MVP and lead this team to the Lombardi on his own. But there are plenty of rational thinkers in this sub that believe, rightfully so, that this team can surprise a lot of players if everyone not named Nick Foles on this roster plays their best football for 3 more games.

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donaaronio•

This is the most rational and intelligent comment I'll probably read on this sub all week. Well done. Fuck Dallas.

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RootLocusOP•

Completely agree. My post wasn't to say that we can't win with Foles, but just that I am tired of hearing people defend his ability based off of the Giants game.

1
midwesternhousewives•

I keep seeing people say that there is all this false hope from this game, but I have yet to see any top comments point to this game.

Everything I've seen has been very tempered expectations

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alcatraz_0109•

I feel like a lot of people are brushing off the Oakland/Dallas games. I don't think Foles is as bad as either of those games suggests, but historically he's been very prone to awful games like that and the Eagles simply won't win if he's as bad as he was.

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BaerlyAfloat•

No, Nick Foles cannot win a Super Bowl without the rest of the team stepping up in a big way. Nick Foles is not going to put the team on his back and win a game for us. Jeffery, Ertz, Ajayi, Blount, Agholor etc. are all going to need to take their game to the next level. The defense needs to play their best football all season and the Special Teams needs to do at least one thing great every game.

I keep telling myself that Doug was keeping it bland, saving some playbook for the playoffs. Whether or not that's true, who knows. Probably not. Just pumped we're still in it and that we can all still argue about eagles football.

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BaerlyAfloat•

And I hope Foles plays out of his mind. Will shut a few people up for a week.

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RootLocusOP•

I'm specifically referring to Foles. I have hope in our Defense and Special teams.

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DacheeziestBig Dick Doug Visor Fan Club•

Your description of the first touchdown is disingenuous. The PI call on the previous play was a great play extension by foles and an excellent throw that should've been caught for a touchdown. Furthermore, he the touchdown was made on like his fourth read into a tight window.

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somesevenyearoldPlease put me in trash•

If the Giants allowed 32 passing touchdowns this season, across 16 games, that's two a game. Foles doubled that. If you rate quarterbacks on a scale of 1-10, the average is five. If Foles is double the average, he's a 10. You just proved Foles is a perfect quarterback.

Checkmate.

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RootLocusOP•

lol. Oh shit, it's Bobby Fischer!

I understand you're being sarcastic, but... just in case.

Thats why I put the section about how Foles got his TDs. Also, the 32 TD's against isn't meant to signify that being above or below the average makes you a above or below average QB, just that the Giants defense is on average pretty terrible.

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unbelievre•

Can you please write up something to also discredit how he won his last start before that at KC. I'd also like an idiotic subjective narrative about how when he won pro bowl mvp that wasn't valid. While you're at it can you also breakdown how meaningless it is that his numbers through his first season and a half in the NFL are the same or better than those of Carson? I mean I'm glad you see that it is frustrating as fuck to see Nick Foles keep having these great games throughout his entire career, and doing all this winning, when he's clearly just a piece of shit, as proven 100% by the fact that he recently played 5 bad quarters of football.

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RootLocusOP•

Foles through for 3 touchdowns and 410 yards in two games for the Chiefs. I'd hardly consider that a solid counterpoint.

For the Rams Foles started 11 games and had 7 TDs, 2052 yards, and a rating of 69.

In 2014 for the Eagles he started 8 games, had 13 TDs, and a rating of 81.

His only good season was the Chip Kelly miracle season.

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unbelievre•

Tell me more

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unbelievre•

It's a well known fact that Jeff Fisher is a qb killer. That's not a valid point.

Let's not forget that Foles also had a great rookie season, all things consided. He was thrown in at the end of a shit show season just prior to Andy Reid getting fired. 3/5 starters from the o line were IR, Peters, Kelce and Herremans. Desean Jackson was IR. Bryce Brown was his starting RB. Yet somehow he had a comp pct of 61%, passer rating of 79.1 while passing for 241 yards per game. By contrast fellow rookie sensation Andrew Luck competed 54% of his passes for a passer rating of 76.1. But of course none of this matters because he sucked under Jeff Fisher and had 5 bad quarters after the 4 TD game. I get it.

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Psuphilly•

What made nick so successful during his 27 touchdown season isn't really applicable now.

He was successful because he had DeJac who could stretch the field vertically and our all time leading, pro bowl, possible HOF running back eating yards underneath making plays happen.

If the defense stacked the box, nick could throw a deep ball to DeJac that he could go run under, and if they played off then shady could eat up linebackers in space.

This is a completely different personal set that doesn't play to Nick's strengths. He has a horrible looking deep ball because he can't hit receivers in windows down field, but he can throw them open. Problem is, we don't have anyone who can burn separation.

So what happens when the opposing team stacks the box? I'm sorry but nick was good because the balance in his playmakers.

With Carson, he provides another threat that needs to be accounted for because in an RPO he is another threat that can extend drives, which opens his TE and slot guys because linebackers need to play down and account for Carson running. Nick doesn't pose that threat.

I don't see how this team is going to put together long drives as effectively as 2013 nick or Carson did this year.

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unbelievre•

But Nick was successful his rookie season also. It's almost a shame that 2013 happened because it made him a one hit wonder instead of a promising QB who could develop into something. This is from a new article before 2013, and after Nick took over for Vick to complete the 2012 season:

"The logic is simple: Andy Reid took over as head coach of the Chiefs last month after 14 seasons in Philadelphia. His staff includes Doug Pederson, the former Eagles' quarterbacks coach who now serves as the Chiefs' offensive coordinator. Foles' skill-set is ideally suited for the West Coast offense, and he spent his rookie season learning the Reid playbook in Philadelphia.

"I know both Andy Reid and Doug Pederson were very high on Nick Foles and his future," Jeremiah said. "They were huge supporters through the entire process and believe in him greatly.

"I would think they would explore that opportunity if it presented itself."

Reid and Pederson love Foles' size and accuracy, two traits they covet at the position. And while we don't imagine the Eagles would bend over backwards to help Reid, it certainly helps that the divorce between coach and team was largely amicable. That Reid now operates in a different conference doesn't hurt, either.

Kelly said Monday that every NFL team needs two quarterbacks. There's logic to that, especially when Vick is one of them. But if Reid wanted Foles enough, the Eagles would have to at least listen."

That was a real thing. Foles played really well in really a really terrible situation. A lot of teams had eyes on him. Then after he had that great season all the "eye test" couch experts starting calling him fools gold. I get it, he's not Aaron Rodgers. But to act like he's a scrub in spite of him playing at a consistently high level outside of the Rams is just foolish.

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Psuphilly•

I never called him a scrub. I just don't think he has the personnel around him to be as effective as he previously has been. The playmakers we have no aren't the same as in 2013 and I believe Carson's mobility/ ability to extend the play was the catalyst to our receivers having great games this year. I don't believe Nick can be expected to do the same and I don't think think he is even capable of extending plays on his own to force guys open.

My major concern right now is that I see absolutely no tangible reason why Nick will play any better than his last 10-11 quarters of play. Especially against a defense that will be markedly better than the raiders, cowboys or Giants.

I can sit here and hope that he will play better, (and as a fan, I obviously do) but I've no legitimate indication that he will.

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unbelievre•

My thing is that even his 2014 season wasn't really that bad. He did have some mechanical issues and regression, but we've seen that from top 10 quarterbacks. Hell guys like big Ben and even Brady have been through slumps in their careers where they weren't playing good football.

But aside from that the guy has always done his job. He had a really strong 2012. Phenomenal 2013. Regressed a little in 2014. Then I discount the Rams. Last year he had a 106 passer rating while completing 65.5% of his passes for the Rams. This year he's had one really good game and one shit game.

If you look at the complete body of work it suggests that he can play and play well. I mean I didn't even bring up the pro bowl mvp.

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anandonaqui•

I’ve never understood comments like “that TD doesn’t count towards the QB because it was a screen pass/resulted from a turnover”

This is football. Screen passes exist for a reason. Turnovers happen. Short fields are a reality. You can’t make this nonsensical argument about Foles without applying the same test to Brady, Brees and every other QB. What do their stats look like if you remove all TDs that result from a turnover, or have long runs-after-catch?

Is Foles as good as Tom Brady? Nope, but he’s a serviceable QB surrounded by damn good weapons (Alston, Ertz, Ajayi, Blount, Nelson) and a rock solid defense. Inferior QBs can win Super Bowls against GOAT QBs. Eli has never even been in the same echelon as Brady, but he’s got 2 rings. (And for the record, I hate Brady with the fire of 1000 suns, but even I can admit that he’s a great QB)

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RootLocusOP•

I didn't say that the TD's don't count. I am saying that a 4TD game where the QB drives for 80 yards to score for each TD is different than one where he steps onto the field in the redzone. When people defend Foles saying he put up 4 against the Giants they are completely disregarding how he got those 4 - it was, for the most part, not his success, but the success of our D/ST.

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Bandekow•

What I'm reading in your post is Foles can do well with help from the defense and the running game which I think is what people who have faith in Foles have pretty much been saying all along.

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hasordealsw1thclams•

Yeah, I think the people he's talking to are really a subsect of people who think that 27-2 is the real Nick Foles and anyone who doesn't agree is a pessimist. Realistically, I think (or hope) the majority of people realize he's a very average QB who just needs to limit his mistakes and make a few plays here and there, while the rest of the team steps up around him.

Him throwing 4 TDs and playing like dog shit against the Raiders are both the real Nick Foles - an inconsistent and average NFL QB

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vinj4•

As Blount said, we don’t need any negative energy heading into this game. Either have something positive to say or don’t say anything at all

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RootLocusOP•

We're spectators talking about the eagles on a forum, not teammates shitting on each other.

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hasordealsw1thclams•

Yeah, that point makes no sense. If you were going on twitter and talking negative shit to our guys you'd be an asshole (and there are plenty of those guys, and they all suck). Having a well-reasoned discussion on a place meant for that isn't going to have any effect on the team at all.

I'm actually an Eagles optimist, always have been, and have been getting annoyed this week by the people acting like people aren't real fans if they bring up valid questions.

The fact is Nick Foles hasn't been good. I didn't like him as a player in his first go around and I don't like him now, but he can still win if he just limits mistakes and plays average. He has shown that ability, he's just wildly inconsistent. The team around him has to step up for us to win though. That's realistic optimism.

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