Source
r/StarWars•
blockpro156

[spoilers] Something about the force in TLJ, that I haven't really seen discussed.

Spoilerspoilers

So with Yoda summoning lightning to burn down the Jedi tree thingy, obviously the fact that a force ghost can interact with the physical world like that is a really big reveal.

But what's also a big reveal, that I haven't really seen anyone talk about, is that this shows a light sider summoning lightning!
Previously it's been portrayed as a dark side power, but does this show that force users on the light side could also do it?

I'm honestly really excited to see what kind of crazy force powers we might see in episode 9, or further down the line.

Posted Jan 24, 2018, 4:49 PM UTC

4155
WUMBOWAMPAS•

I see it as Yoda summoning lightning through Nature, while Sith like Palpatine summons the lightning from within himself... Just my perspective and not necessarily the right answer.

111
Furan_ring•

Sith try to control the force, therefore they force it to summon lightning. Jedi let the force flow throw them, therefore the force used Yoda to summon lightning.

16
blockpro156OP•

Yeah that's true, there's some clouds as well when he does it.

However, I don't see how summoning it slightly more directly would necessarily be any less natural than telekinesis for example.
If you can use the force to generate lightning using clouds, then I don't see why it would suddenly be unnatural to do the same thing on a smaller scale, to shoot lightning from your fingertips.

1†
Hubers57•

Cause lightning comes from clouds, it's manipulating it in its natural form. Lightning never naturally comes from fingertips, that's twisting reality to one's own whims.

22
blockpro156OP•

Static electricity is totally natural though, it's not like the only natural way to generate electricity is through clouds.

If they can use telekinesis, then I don't see why they can't generate electricity.

3
Hubers57•

I mean, static electricity is not at all the same as lightning. I get the similarities but I think they are two different things entirely

Edit: alright poorly worded, but I think there's a difference between lightning bolts coming from clouds and coming from fingers. Sith lightning is not natural, normal lightning from a cloud is

-4†
laner1977•

The fact that force ghosts can sit down and can walk on ground proves they can interact with physical objects.

16
blockpro156OP•

No it doesn't?

All it proves is that physical objects can affect force ghosts, but it could be a one way street.

Lets compare it to Luke on Crait (forget about the dice for now)
Luke walking on Crait doesn't prove anything, because while he's not sinking through the floor, he's also not shifting the salt.

Or they could just be pretending to sit down, while they can pretty much just do whatever they want, it's just that it's hard to have a conversation with Luke if they're flying through the floor and shit.

-3†
laner1977•

Crait has zero to do with the conversation. Force projections vs force ghosts.

Pretending to sit down? To what benefit?

If a being in the physical world can hear a force ghost it means the force ghost can cause vibrations in the air which means it is interacting with the physical world.

13
blockpro156OP•

Crait has zero to do with the conversation. Force projections vs force ghosts.

It's a fucking analogy...

Luke wasn't interacting with anything, yet he still appeared to walk on the surface of Crait.
Which shows that appearing to walk or sit on something, is not direct proof of interacting with the environment.

If a being in the physical world can hear a force ghost it means the force ghost can cause vibrations in the air which means it is interacting with the physical world.

Now you're just being silly...
So are you saying that Rey and Kylo were sending vibrations of air all across the galaxy? And that Leia and Luke in ESB were sending vibrations to each other?
Because I'm pretty sure that it's just voices inside their head, not actual sound, you're being way too literal.

-1†
ShadowCow127•

Actually, they may have, since Kylo's palm is wet with Ahch-To's rain at the end of one of their conversations. The boundary between what's there and what isn't becomes pretty malleable.

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[deleted]•

[removed]

1
TLM86•

ESB and ROTJ already established ghosts can interact with the physical world.

15
AlexSebire•

And in TCW Qui Gon lifts Yoda and some furniture as a disembodied voice. Then we have the force priestesses; one being who can split herself into 5, create illusions, interact with the physical world and more from beyond the grave.

6
MrMarkZ•

People forget that the island was powerful in The Force - a sort of talisman in and of itself.

Proof of this power is when Luke kills a creature on the island (big fish) we also get a lightning strike.

It's just Yoda, who is one with the force, channelling the force to do what he needs at that moment and that's the only way to make something naturally ignite.

12
blockpro156OP•

Proof of this power is when Luke kills a creature on the island (big fish) we also get a lightning strike.

Yeah no, pretty sure that's just movie editing to make it all a bit more exciting, it's not an actual cause and effect...

4
MrMarkZ•

No way dude - the island gave a total "Mortis" vibe - a place tied to the Force.

1
blockpro156OP•

Well yeah, sure, but that doesn't mean that spearing a fish results in a fucking lightning strike lol.

6
MrMarkZ•

I think it's the islands way of saying "ouch."

It's not an ominous thing but just a reaction.

1
alkutezio•

is it also possible that Yoda didn't actually summon any lightning at all and that he knew that the lightning was going to hit the tree and was just distracting Luke enough to keep him out of the tree so he wouldn't be killed and fulfill his destiny of "confronting" Kylo and allowing Leia and the rebels to escape Crait? Yoda knows how impulsive Luke can be like when he ran off to Cloud City in TESB

I haven't read the novelization or scripts or anything so I don't know if it's explicitly pointed out that Yoda caused the lightning strike but he probably did, I'm just exploring alternate avenues

6
wreckingballheart•

Neither the novelization or the script have been released yet.

4
alkutezio•

ok I wasn't sure

1
BushyDio•
  1. Its already storming he just points it
  2. AoTC makes TLJ look even worse in this regard. It cements lightning as a sith technique when Count Dracula throws it at Yoda, who says "the fuck" and dips.
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blockpro156OP•

Yoda shoots it back though...

I don't think that it conflicts with AOTC at all, Yoda is more defensive, but there's no real reason to assume that he couldn't do the same thing if he wanted to.

9
BushyDio•

Dude I just wanted an excuse to say aotc>tlj even tho its like saying you'd rather eat shit than popcorn. Sorry bruv.

All chaunce aside I dont think they would be able to use lightning as its symbolic of the dark side. Yoda using it is very different as he takes it from nature, not his own hatred. 9 could prove me wrong tho

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blockpro156OP•

Dude I just wanted an excuse to say aotc>tlj even tho its like saying you'd rather eat shit than popcorn. Sorry bruv.

Well, at least you're honest, I guess.

All chaunce aside I dont think they would be able to use lightning as its symbolic of the dark side. Yoda using it is very different as he takes it from nature, not his own hatred. 9 could prove me wrong tho

Fair enough, but where is the cutoff point? We can generate electricity on a much smaller scale than big storm clouds, but it's essentially still the same process.

I'm not that great with physics, so I don't really know the exact process to be honest, but I don't see why generating electricity without a cloud would suddenly be any less natural.

Static electricity is natural, couldn't they just do kinda the same thing with the force to create lightning?

2
seperatedcoma6•

The rots novelization refers to force lighting as focused spite. Make of it what you will

2
Bl0ndie_J21•

I like thinking that force ghosts can interact with the real world, but not when it comes to big, destiny kind of moments. They’re gone, their time has passed, they can’t make an impact in the physical world and it’s future, which is why Yoda wouldn’t show up and strike Snoke with a lightning bolt during the throne scene. But to impart some wisdom, in tandem with the force (which probably wants to be balanced), even in a theatrical way, is all fine and dandy with me.

4
oboejdub•

yoda used the force to telekinetically rub cloud particles together creating an electric charge and then the lightning happened.

:D

3
HutSutRawlson•

My theory is that lightning manipulation is just a thing that all powerful force users can do. Your philosophy towards the force determines how you manifest this power.

Dark Side users, like the Sith and Snoke, generate from their bodies. We see Palpatine, Dooku, and Snoke all do this in essentially the same ways; Snoke's is a little different, with a shorter "wind up" time and the ability to do a cool bank shot. Dark Side users manipulate the energy around them into this excited state, they create the lightning out of nothing, which is an important distinction.

Light Side users are now shown to be able to create lightning, but through manipulating natural forces. Yoda's lightning doesn't come from his body, he creates a storm and then commands the lightning to strike in a particular place (although the tree was a likely target for a natural lightning strike anyways). Light siders can also apparently absorb lightning, using their lightsabers or the force itself.

The last example comes from Rebels, the Bendu. This character, who is more of a super-intelligent animal and claims to be in the "middle," actually becomes a lightning storm. The Bendu isn't a Jedi and he's not dark side; he is more of an avatar of the planet itself, and as such, when he manifests this most potent power, he becomes one with the planet and actually becomes a raging storm. I differentiate this from Yoda's power, since Yoda wasn't literally the storm itself, only commanding it.

tl;dr Anyone can use lightning if they are strong enough with the Force.

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blockpro156OP•

I don't think Bendu actually became a storm, he just summoned a storm like Yoda did, and the rest was a bunch of illusions.

That's why Thrawn was able to shoot him out of the sky, he didn't actually change his form at all, he was just levitating inside the storm or something.

2
danellender•

"Don't Underestimate the Force."

2
acjj1990•

Dark side lightning is derived from focusing the dark side within and channeling outward concentrated in a lightning form.

There's a light variation known as Electrical Judgement that produces the same effect but by channeling the light. It's still frowned upon by jedi since it's seen as a solely offensive move.

Once with the force, all the light and dark nonsense becomes meaningless as you see the force for what it truly is.

2
spaghettiAstar•

Technically Electric Judgement is no longer canon. It was developed by Plo Koon who accidentally used it and informed the council afterwards. They had him meditate on it and he found that he used no anger and was in total control of his emotions during it. It was non-lethal and developed into a usable force power for Jedi.. But again, it's no longer canon.

6
blockpro156OP•

Sometimes an offense is the best defense though ;p

It's impossible for Jedi to not realize this on some level, they wouldn't be considerable lightsaber duelists if they couldn't recognize such a basic concept.

2
jshemaly1999•

The way I see it is that there was already a storm on or near the island, and that lightning bolt was already going down anyways, so yoda just redirected it with the force to another location, which means he didn't create the lightning or force it to appear, just move it to target something else. I like this explanation because it doesn't contradict with the force lightning thing, which I see causes a lot of debate among fans...

2
carmafluxus•

If one thing has been revealed it’s that the Force in the sequels doesn’t follow strict “rules of nature” as it did in the prequels.

1
VTKajin•

  1. TCW did it first.

  2. It was the weather, not Force lightning.

1
Cobra-Serpentress•

Becoming a Force Ghost makes you Evil. Only the Sith deal in absolutes. And Yoda is absolutely dead.

1
clwestbr•

EU had lightside lightning.

The new films are cribbing a lot from the EU actually. Like...a ton.

1
unsigned1138•

My take is the writer/director isn't a StarWars fan and it shouldn’t have happened.

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