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r/DaystromInstitute•
OneMario

The Romulan Star Empire, and Its Lack of Stars

One thing that has always bothered me in Trek is the notion of the huge empires on the borders of the Federation that seem to only consist of a single race. This is a big problem with the Klingons and the Romulans, and maybe even the Cardassians, depending on what they meant by "Union." Yes, the Romulans were eventually given the Remans, but that is still a planet in the same system (and might be a related species). Not quite a "Star Empire," unless star was meant in the singular.

Now the obvious reason for this was budgetary constraints, and I can't quarrel with that. But still, I'd like to make an effort on solving the problem of who, exactly, the Romulans have conquered.

First, it's important to note the Romulan method of attack, because just swooping in militarily is not their style. From Enterprise, specifically the Syrrannite arc, it's clear that the Romulans do a lot of prep work behind the scenes by corrupting and infiltrating the government they want to control. And, if the alterations to the Vulcan government are any indication, their aim appears to be to slowly transform the host government into one compatible with Romulan ideals -- brutal, totalitarian, etc. One can easily imagine if the Romulans had had a little more time, they could have revealed themselves to the Vulcan High Command and achieved reunification without conflict.

So I imagine that there is a lot of what we saw on Enterprise that was the result of a surreptitious Romulan infiltration into planetary governments in the Beta and maybe Alpha quadrants. So which governments were the Romulans infiltrating? It's possible that Terra Prime was a product of their influence, but who else? I would suggest three likely candidates, the Mazarites, the Tandarans, and the Torothans (the aliens from Desert Crossing, for lack of a better name).

First, all three appear within a few episodes of one another (Detained, Fallen Hero, & Desert Crossing), as the Enterprise approaches Risa. All three represent brutal, repressive, corrupt governments. After the Enterprise leaves Risa, you get only a single story (Shockwave, parts 1 & 2) before the Enterprise encounters the Romulans in Minefield (we can ignore Carbon Creek for these purposes). So it isn't a stretch to assume that the Romulans would be nearby, particularly since we know that there influence extends much closer to Earth on Vulcan.

The Mazarites and the Torothans are minor species that can be taken together, but the Tandarans are special, because they were described as a particularly powerful government. One complaint while the show was airing was why, if they were so important, did we never hear about the Tandarans after Enterprise, in the same way that people ask about the Xindi.

So I would propose that the Romulans were infiltrating multiple governments in the general vicinity of Earth for decades, and transforming their governments into something that represented the Romulan way of life. When Earth began to expose their machinations, starting with Babel, they could no longer afford to stay behind the scenes. During the war, as Earth assembled its allies (the Vulcans, Andorians and Tellarites), the Romulans leveraged the influence they had obtained on their puppet worlds and formally, but peacefully, conquered, the Mazarites, Tandarans, and Torothans, and added their power to the Romulan cause. At the end of the war, the Romulans simply retained their control over those worlds. As Odo said, "once they capture territory, they rarely give it up."

One nice side effect of this is that it would imply that Romulan space is not too far from Risa, which is nice, as that's where Geordi was headed when they abducted him in The Mind's Eye.

So there's your Empire (while, obviously, there are likely other worlds). And if anyone asks where the Tandarans went, you can safely say "behind the Neutral Zone."

Posted Feb 19, 2018, 7:24 PM UTC

3934
Stargate525Ensign•

Honestly, the Klingons and Romulans strike me as people who wouldn't tolerate the presence of other species in their fleets or on their home worlds.

In the case of the Klingons, I suspect the conquered peoples get turned into basically serfs; still able to work the land they're on, to farm and mine and work in factories, but not allowed to leave the planet or breed to significant amounts. The great houses may each control millions of these aliens.

The Romulans... I have a feeling they abscond with the best and the brightest, use them until they die, and the remainder are systematically exterminated. There are no non-Romulans in the Romulan Empire (minus the Remans who are a fluke).

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polarisdelta•

The great houses may each control millions of these aliens.

Now there's an interesting idea, did Picard or Sisko ever have to square up Worf, son and heir to the house of of Mogh, capable officer, loyal friend, and ultimate personal enslaver of tens or hundreds of thousands (particularly later on as the dust has settled from the civil war)?

Did Dax have some dealings with the Dahar Masters that might have given a Federation ethics board pause?

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Stargate525Ensign•

Serfdom is not slavery. It's close, but there are significant differences, and serfs generally had legal standing in the areas where it took place.

I don't think that that system would hold in a Federation world, but on the other hand I don't think that the Federation would have to hold specific officers accountable for trying to reform the entire empire.

15
PM_ME_UR_HARASSMENT•

You're right. The Klingon empire is also still at least partially a post-scarcity society. We know Ferenghi had replicators so by that logic, everyone should be able to get their hands on one if they have enough latinum.

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SwahhillieCrewman•

everyone should be able to get their hands on one if they have enough latinum.

Or a big enough disruptor.

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

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CalGuy81•

I think the Klingons and Romulans preside over empires of largely subjugated worlds, whose inhabitants don't have the opportunity to participate in empire politics or the military.

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novaember•

If thats the case shouldn't the Federation be exponentially more powerful than either of them considering Starfleet would have over 100x the manpower and technological superiority. Especially with Klingons it never made sense to me how they are able to actually match up to the Federation.

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coolpoopCrewman•

I would imagine that having subjugated worlds taking care of other parts of the economy allows the Klingon population to be very disproportionately allocated to the military.

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novaember•

I feel like a subjugated population would still be much less efficient and that it would stifle technological advancement and innovation, though I have no examples to back that up.

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coolpoopCrewman•

Probably, but then I guess a Cold War style situation where the economically less capable side devoting way more to military allows it to remain a viable rival (until the point where it collapses on itself).

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Stargate525Ensign•

You can be 'subjugated' without being unhappy.

For instance, if the only changes to your life were that you didn't get to vote, and you needed to speak with the mayor in order to leave the city... 80% of the country would live life no differently.

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lordcorbran•

I always got the impression that the Federation, at least the TNG era version of it, could be exponentially more powerful than its neighbors, it just chose not to. The Federation was never interested in conquest, so it mostly just put as many resources into its military capabilities as it needed to to keep pace with them.

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djbon2112Crewman•

Even during the Dominion War I feel like the Federation was basically half-assing it. There was no (mentioned, that I know of) conscription, not much talk of increased ship yields, and in general a feeling of "yea, we're fighting a brutal war, but that only needs to affect a small portion of the population".

I fully imagine that, had that war gone on much longer, we might have seen a truly powerful Federation rise up. The problem is, that power would be, as you say, in direct contradiction with its ideals and choices. After all, the Terran Empire was able to rule a huge chunk of the galaxy on its own. The Federation, with all its (willing) member worlds, could easily do the same if it really wanted or needed to.

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hoot1991•

The Federation is exponentially more powerful than either of them, at least in the 24th century when the borders are more established.

Starfleet ships tend to be more powerful than their Romulan/Klingon equivalents and they certainly field more ships than the other major powers.

There's also a reason the Borg periodically send cubes at Earth and not at Romulus or Qo'nos. The Federation has the best technology in the Alpha Quadrant.

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Whiteymcwhitebelt•

Erm kind of. Not in the TNG era. If we look at wolf 359 many of the ships were old designs , and quite a few were ships that had no business being there when new. On top of that it was only 40 ships. On top of that they lost the border wars to the cardassians basically out of a pure lack of will to fight even though they had a huge technical advantage. The Klingons with one fleet took the cardassians to their knees. Its a federation that forgot not everywhere is paradise.

That's pre dominion war though. Post dominion war, after they build a massive of war machine with ship designs that were made this century. Well were talking about a very different federation that is far more powerful, and used bio weapons for a negotiating edge. After the dominion war I would not be surprised if the romulans, Klingons, and cardassians all end up joining.

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novaember•

Through the events of the Dominion War and Nemesis the Federation has saved Cardassia, saved the Klingons(mainly Worf's doing), and saved the Romulans from a nearly successful coup. The Cardassians should absolutely be joining the Federation and the Romulans forming an alliance at the least.

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unibuckeyeEnsign•

The Romulans have been so underserved by the various series. They shouldn't be appearing in Discovery so we won't get new info. They could have been the big bad on Enterprise but they only featured in 3-4 episodes, and mentioned only a few more times than that. They should have been the people hiring the Suliban (genetic engineering could habe been pursued by the RSE and tested on unwitting species). They should have been the power behind the scenes moving pawns around. Then you have Archer and Starfleet somehow exposing them and the Romulans have to act against Earth ahead of their timetable, causing them to lose. Such potential wasted....

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lordcorbran•

The Enterprise writers were clearly building toward the Romulan War, but they were under the assumption they'd get seven seasons like their predecessors and got canceled before they got there.

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djbon2112Crewman•

I'm really hoping that with the success of Discovery we can get a new perspective into that time, if not an Enterprise continuation (that would IMO be really cool, pick up the same crew 20 years later). There's almost 100 years worth of time and events to go over, including that War.

I don't hate the Xindi arc, but maybe they could have done the same thing with the Romulans instead - it might have been both more believable and consistent, and also more interesting, finally fleshing out one of the more mysterious ST villains.

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unibuckeyeEnsign•

Agreed. Or maybe have the Romulans be the ones goading the Xindi into destroying humanity.

2
SydTheDrunk•

My own personal theory to why we don't see other species in the Romulan Empire is that they're kept at pre-warp tech levels. The Romulans (being the sneaky bastards they are) probably introduce themselves to pre-warp cultures in their own space, tell them about the "evil" Federation or the big, scary Klingons, and say "but don't worry about them, we'll keep you safe in exchange for some of your resources. Also, don't worry about developing your own warp technology. Space is dangerous. Best to stay on your own planet." I don't think this is too much of a stretch considering this is essentially the propaganda real world North Korea tells it's own citizens.

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TheGlitterBand•

Maybe a huge proportion of a conquered world's population dies of new diseases soon after contact. Let's call this the Spanish Empire model.

Maybe they simply exterminate most of the conquered people's population. Let's call this the Roman Model.

Maybe are surprisingly fair and enlightened, but the conquered people are not permitted play a major role in the politics of the homeworld but are allowed a decent amount of autonomy on their own planet. In this scenario we might not see conquered races because they serve as foot soldiers in the Romulan/Klingon Armies in special Foreign Legion type units rather than in the more prestigious Navy. British Empire model.

Maybe the Empires aren't true Empires in the classic sense, but do preside over a far flung system of trade and alliances. While the "conquered" planets remain more or less autonomous, they are expected to tow the line when it comes to certain things like catering to the Home World's economic needs and participating in a mutual defense agreement with the Home World as the undisputed leader. In this model, they might not be seen because it is the Home World's military that shows up at critical times and in hot spots. This is the American model.

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rsteroidsthrow2•

I don't think it's insane to think that a lot of the surrounding star systems around Romulus were empty. They could also have a lot of outright colonies on top of client states.

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butterhoscotchCrewman•

little factoid straight from the Worfs mouth. According to him The old ways including executing the local government and installing an imperial overseer to control the planet.

speculator here bet common sense would indicate they would probably establish a military base so they can control through fear and violence. So they probably have troops with them. They are in charge of working the planets population to death for the glory of the Empire. Klingons also likely came across uninhabited systems and colonized them with klingon only colonies lest we forget even klingons can farm for the empire. They had time to spread far even at low warp since they probably had acquired warp almost 1000 years before humans, implied heavily to be reworked hurq technology. interestingly they only barely matched up with vulcans by the time of enterprise, they even had to trade for cloaking tech, meaning they dont excel in sciences they just used salvaged and reworked hurq tech and make discoveries much slower then races. Since the tech wasnt invented by klingons were they ready for warp drive? Are they what we would be if we got warp drive during the dark ages? Feudal states, competitive nobles, lacking in the intelligence department, so they keep using centuries old designs over and over. All just speculation of course. In two centuries we only see two new ship designs. which are effective but really just larger with more guns, if they dont step up their science game they will go extinct.

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transwarp1•

We see in Errand of Mercy exactly how Klingons conquer low tech worlds. Kor is surprised that he does not have to execute any rebels.

Is it established that they traded for cloaks? I thought all we had to go on was Starfleet intelligence believing the Romulans had acquired Klingon ship designs and then the Bird of Prey cloaking in ST III (after they switch the Romulan bad guys to Klingons but left the plot and ship).

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