Question re MoneroV: can damage to privacy be avoided by temporarily moving XMR to a new wallet, created just for the snapshot on 14th March, then move XMR back to orig wallet?
[removed]
Posted Mar 5, 2018, 1:22 AM UTC
417
Most of the community is not stupid enough to claim. This doesn't work because you're still using the same key to spend on 2 different chains. You're showing your private key to scammers/attackers the one you used to send back XMR to original wallet. It does damage to Monero because unlike Bitcoin it uses ring signatures.
7
Fair enough, good point. So could it help to not send directly back to original wallet, after the snapshot, but to another temporary wallet in between?
2
Temporary wallet has no bearing on the primary issue of undermining RingCT via a chainsplit and duplicate key images. The issue lies with key images which can be avoided by not 'claiming' XMV; it can not be avoided with temporary wallets despite how many you may use inbetween.
2
In order to avoid revealing that any mixing inputs are decoys one needs to spend both the XMR and XMV with the same mixset.
The tools that Stoffu and moneromooo have written allow for the spending of pre fork XMR with a minimum number of pre fork mixins. This is an essential part of the equation since only pre fork mixins can be the same on both chains. If a pre fork XMR output is spent with only post fork mixins then it would be impossible to create the same mixins on the XMV chain so if the corresponding XMV are spent there is a privacy leak. The second part of the equation requires a MoneroV wallet for the XMV spend that supports using the same mixins as the previous XMR spend. If this is not supported by the XMV wallet then the XMV wallet would have to be patched.
Edit: Moving the XMR to a new wallet does not solve the problem. All it does is expose outputs in the middle of a churn as opposed to outputs that could involve a third party. More importantly it still impacts the network adversely, Still there is some value in doing this extra churn if it is done in addition to using the same mixset as I indicated above. One advantage is that the prior transaction history is not exposed to the XMV software.
6
Also negative is that the usual way of moving coins to a new wallet links them all by spending them all in a single transaction (or relative small number of txs). This is negative for privacy (this is even observed for the case of Bitcoin forks which induce this behavior and are bad for both individual and network privacy).
5
This is a very valid point; however it can be mitigated by using multiple transactions with few inputs rather than a single large transaction. One other aspect to all of this is that for older wallets many of the inputs had a mixin of 1 and also preceded ring ct. So this may a good opportunity for some wallet maintenance.
3
Yes, that can be mitigated that way in both Bitcoin and Monero, but most people won't. When the advice is given to "move coins to a new wallet", in practice that will be privacy damaging in most cases, especially if done widely for a lot of wallets (say in response to a fork). Bitcoin Cash, for example, had a pretty high participation rate and resulted in a lot of coins being moved to new wallets to claim 'safely'. That probably damaged privacy quite a bit on the Bitcoin network (though it is generally poor to begin with, of course).
3
Thanks AM. Is there a download link for the tool you refer to? Assume it may need to be compiled.
If the XMV wallet does not support using prefork mixins, then would be great for a patch to be made available.
1
The tools will be included in the CLI (I have no idea how it will be incorporated into the GUI), you can see the discussion/development here. It currently has not yet been merged, but once it has been it should be safe to compile. It also aims to be included into the next release in a few weeks.
3
This has been discussed ad nauseam. Therefore, use the search function and/or the daily discussion thread. Also:
https://getmonero.org/2018/02/11/PoW-change-and-key-reuse.html
https://medium.com/@tweetingpauls/beware-of-non-native-forks-of-monero-6f5a0bf1fccf
https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/7ymvvz/monerov_a_trap_laid_for_monero_users/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/7xzdro/what_chain_splits_mean_for_monero/
2
No. This does not prevent damage to your privacy. I believe that Stoffu and moneromooo have written a tool to safely claim forked coins, however (“sweep_all_fork”).
Taking a quick look at #3322, I do not see a
sweep_all_forkbut there are good tools in there to mitigate the affect of airdrop forks.Thank gosh I wrote “I believe”.
Is there some steps the community can follow, for claiming forked coins, while best protecting privacy?
Even though XMV is a money grab, with premine for founder, and a bollocks claim of fixing Monero's infinite supply issue, even though supply in 2050 will be only ~22 mil, it's still free money which probably most of community will claim.
See this video by u/SamsungGalaxyPlayer
It's not free money. This is not a Bitcoin type of fork. It's a shoot yourself and others in the foot for a few pennies type of situation.
Its as "free" as using Google apps or Facebook is. You think its free until you look further and find out its actually very expensive. Instead of money you have sold your private life....and parts of other people's also.
[deleted]