Source
r/Firearms•
lf11

Question on multiple triggers

Question

This might be a stupid question but I can't find an answer on the internet. It's relating to ATF rules on machine guns and trigger pulls.

Lots of guns have two triggers. Mostly side-by-side shotguns. What about fitting side-by-side triggers on an AR platform? First trigger fires, hold it back until the bolt resets, opening the second trigger for firing. Holding pressure back fires the second trigger. Maybe, with decent design, having three triggers in total. One squeeze operates three triggers, giving a functional three-round burst.

Here is the definition of a machine gun per 5845B: "The term “machinegun” means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger."

"The" trigger does not address the presence of multiple triggers. Has anyone seen this, considered this, or know of any rulings or cases on this point?

The closest device I can find is the 3MR trigger which uses a positive reset to achieve a high rate of fire. Can't find an example of multiple triggers on a semiauto.

Posted Mar 7, 2018, 9:59 PM UTC

28
JakesGunReviews•

Just get a binary trigger.

4
lf11OP•

I mean, there are lots of ways to obtain the desired result, I was just curious if anyone had ever seen this approach.

1
Hydropos•

First trigger fires, hold it back until the bolt resets, opening the second trigger for firing. Holding pressure back fires the second trigger. Maybe, with decent design, having three triggers in total. One squeeze operates three triggers, giving a functional three-round burst.

This would be a pain to actually build. Plus, I think it would fall under the same ruling as that 1st gen bump-stock with a recoil spring in it that was banned a while back (I forget what it was called). The ATF ruling was that it took only the energy from the first shot to actuate the sear thus firing 2 rounds as a result of the initial trigger pull. In this system, even though you would be pulling triggers 2 and 3, the actual energy that resulted in the sear disengaging for the second and third shot would come entirely from the first shot, thus qualifying it as a machine-gun. In more mechanical terms, the gun would need an auto-sear which is de-activated by not pulling the second and third triggers, and the presence of that auto-sear would qualify it as a machine-gun.

Now, if you instead had something like a grip safety which could be squeezed to reduce the weight/length/reset of trigger pulls down to near nothing, then you could basically "walk" the trigger(s) like a paintball gun –

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5keIJ1jS1hQ#t=33s

3
ZorroMcChucknorris•

I don’t think you understand how an AR pattern rifle works.

2
lf11OP•

I understand very well how an AR pattern rifle works. This is not a trivial piece of engineering, I'm well aware. However, it is doable.

1
ZorroMcChucknorris•

OK. Show your work.

2
lf11OP•

Want to sign an NDA?

0
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
lf11OP•

Well, sure, but I was doing a little due diligence and finding out if anyone had approached this problem before.

1