Source
r/loseit•
lethalcup

Dangers of eating too few calories?

I’m 24 M 5’6” around 130lbs and I’ve started tracking recently to try and lose a little fat. My body fat % is around 17% and I’m aiming to get that into single digits before putting on muscle mass (aka, I’m skinny fat right now but I want to lose the fat first). So with the MFP app I’ve been averaging about 1200-1350 calories a day. Usually I feel like I could eat more at certain parts of the day (like ‘snacking’ times but I feel as if my 3 main meals are also pretty filling. MFP says to get 1500 calories a day to lose 1lb/week, my TDEE is around 1900 since my job is an office desk job, but I do work out 5 days a week for about an hour average, and do cardio (HIIT training) 3 of those days, and I don’t count any work outs in my TDEE. I make sure I balance nutrients and macros as well, about 50/30/20 C/P/F.

So my question is, should I do something to eat another 100-200 calories a day? It wouldn’t be a big deal for me to do, I’m trying to keep my sugar lower so finding some kind of granola bar or something to fill that wouldn’t be that hard, I’m just wondering if there is urgency in doing that for any particular reason?

Posted Mar 9, 2018, 3:13 PM UTC

225
thatpearlgirl27F|5'7|HW:230|CW:150|GW:145•

The big issue is that restricting calories too much can result in losing lean mass (muscle), which definitely won't help with the skinny-fat issue. Since you hope to put on muscle soon, you'll want to preserve as much as you can right now, so try to stick to at least 1500/day (and keep an eye on your protein intake).

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Essej86 •

Yes, that’s another issue. With that amount of calorie restrictions, the OP is likely just losing muscle mass, not fat.

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lethalcupOP24M | 5’6” || 120lb || Maintenance•

Thanks, yeah, I watch protein carefully and always try to go 1g/lb of weight. It’s sometimes a bit hard because other than straight protein shakes, eating protein usually comes with carbs or fat too.

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cenosillicaphobiacJust started my 50th lap around the sun, it's never too late!•

My body fat % is around 17% and I’m aiming to get that into single digits before putting on muscle mass (aka, I’m skinny fat right now but I want to lose the fat first).

You're just going to be the same shape, but smaller.

It's just as important to lift weights during a cut as it is when trying to bulk.

This video explains it in detail.

Start lifting now, while at a deficit, to get your form correct and your central nervous system adapted. Continuing to do cardio and cut calories isn't helping your situation.

so finding some kind of granola bar or something to fill that wouldn’t be that hard,

Granola is a pretty bad choice, as they're full of carbs. Both sugar and non-sugar carbs, but your body treats them the same. You should eat a couple of eggs, or chicken, or jerky, or something loaded with protein instead. Especially if you're already skinny-fat.

50/30/20 C/P/F.

Why that particular mix? I don't really track percentages, but I go heavy protein, moderate fat, low-ish carb (although not a low carb diet, because I lift, and I don't want to be in ketosis) Protein and fats are critical to muscle growth and hormone balance and micronutrient absorption. Carbs have no benefit other than glycogen restoration, and once that's topped off, they're pretty useless.

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funchords⚖MFP+🚶+TOPS 298→183℔ ♂54 5'10½"•

u/lethalcup,

Listen to u/cenosillicaphobiac about lifting while losing. He's right. He knows his stuff.

Carbs have no benefit other than glycogen restoration, and once that's topped off, they're pretty useless.

Maybe that's too strongly worded. Some carbs carry the fiber and other nutrients which make the body functions work. Agree that you can get plenty of carb-supplied nutrition on much less than 50% carbs, though. We westerners consume a lot of empty carbs.

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cenosillicaphobiacJust started my 50th lap around the sun, it's never too late!•

Maybe that's too strongly worded.

Who me? Strongly word something? pshaw!

You are correct, the things that are eaten along with carbs do have additional benefits, and I should have been more clear!

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lethalcupOP24M | 5’6” || 120lb || Maintenance•

Thanks for the reply.

I do lift weights, I didn’t specify in my post, but I try to hit every muscle group at least 3 times a week. I’ve been lifting on and off for the past three years, didn’t too much in 2017 but have been hitting it hard this year. I’ve honestly been able to do the same weight as I’ve done before and slowly been able to increase weights in some areas.

Yeah, I know granola bars aren’t great options but by body type (ectomorph) does handle carbs pretty well so doctors tell me to get 50% of my calories from carbs. I’m right around there currently with adding a 100 cal granola bar. But I might try to find something lower in carbs and higher in fats/proteins instead. I do usually eat a lot of chicken/yogurt for high protein breakfast/dinners and usually get well over 100g a day.

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cenosillicaphobiacJust started my 50th lap around the sun, it's never too late!•

but by body type (ectomorph) does handle carbs pretty well

That is broscience. No offense intended, but it is. Somatotypes were made up, they may be useful for predicting bone density, but not much else. Constitutional physiology (also made up, by the same guy that made up Somatotypes not coincidentally) has been roundly rejected by the medical community. Show me a peer reviewed study that says that where you carry muscle and fat on your body has any impact on how it processes macronutrients. It's been discredited in depth. There is no truth to it, it's pseudoscience. If you are trying to both lose fat, and retain muscle, then you need way more protein, a little more fat, and a lot fewer carbs. Seriously.

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lethalcupOP24M | 5’6” || 120lb || Maintenance•

okay, I’ll be actively looking to cut out some carbs then. Do you think a rough ratio of 40/35/25 would be good? That’s roughly 130g of protein, about 1g/lb, 41g fat and 150g carbs for a 1500 calorie average. I’d go above 1500, probably closer to 1700 on workout days and stick to 1400-1500 on rest days. I could go lower on carbs, I guess, but I don’t like eggs and my quick breakfast options are limited. Still, most of the carbs are whole wheat, high fiber. I do get about 40-50g of sugar a day unfortunately and a relatively large percentage of that comes from yogurt (protein) and fruit.

Currently I do 3 days of cardio and I do cardio right after my workout on 3/5 days. I workout 5 days a week, hitting multiple muscle groups each day. I’ve heard that doing cardio after a workout burns fat since the weight training goes through all your stored glycogens, any truth to that? Or should I do cardio on non-weight/easy weight days?

One other thing, right now I eat granola bars for a snack, 100 cals, mostly whole wheat carbs and low fat/protein. If I sub that for a trail mix or something that could be high in fats/proteins, would that be better? I’m trying not to push my fats too high but am I better off versus loading more carbs?

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cenosillicaphobiacJust started my 50th lap around the sun, it's never too late!•

I’ve heard that doing cardio after a workout burns fat since the weight training goes through all your stored glycogens, any truth to that?

Like all fitness related information, there is a nugget of truth, but it's not nearly as important as simply managing your overall calorie intake. Does it burn more fat while you're exercising? Sure, but if you eat too much energy later, the excess gets stored again as adipose.

Our bodies are very adept at switching between excess energy storage, and using said stored energy when other sources are low. So while the benefit might be there, it won't impact your overall TDEE which is the core component to fat burning. You also might "bonk" when you run all the way out of glycogen stores. It's the reason long distance runners need high GI carbs mid-run. When it comes to deciding which exercise to do first if you're doing both cardio and strength in the same day, do the one you want to increase performance in first.

Do you think a rough ratio of 40/35/25 would be good?

I think that's a lot better. I mean you can find advice and studies to back up nearly any strategy, but overloading on carbs just for the sake of overloading on carbs carries no benefit. I think you'll also find that you're much more sated, as protein and fats keep you fuller, longer. There is also the raw fact that it requires more energy to digest protein, it has a higher "thermic value" meaning that in reality, your body will store less energy if you eat an equivalent number of protein grams vs. fat or carb grams. Because a significant amount of energy is required to break it down.

I’m trying not to push my fats too high but am I better off versus loading more carbs?

As pointed out by u/SDJellBean there isn't a benefit to overdoing fats, so it's sort of a wash. Personally I'd go for protein, but then I'm a big fan of foods with protein, meat, eggs, cheese, etc. Those are my typical snack items. It fits my preferences, so I do it, I get enough fat, I eat a lot of vegetables, I reduce carbs where I can, and I fill in gaps with protein, because it suits me.

In the long run, all of these have a pretty minor impact on people that don't rely on athletic performance for a living. So there is "perfect" and there is "good enough" and in reality, you're already doing "good enough" but if you're looking to tweak it, tweak it to what suits you the most.

This is a long term endeavor, and the best plan is the one that you can do, without being miserable.

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SDJellyBeanMaintaining 3 Years•

Fat is pretty much fat, proteins have very minor sifferences, but carbohydrates are an incredibly wide array of substances ranging from rapidly absorbed glucose to completely indigestible cellulose. Your body digests and metabolizes them in very different ways. Complex, whole carbs are found in highly nutritious foods and generally a good source of micronutrients as well. Lentils (Protein and complex carbohydrates) and donuts (fat and simple carbohydrates) have very, very different effects.

Fats are indeed essential, but once you have consumed the very small amount of required essential fatty acids, they rest are simply calories and, unlike complex carbs, not particularly nutritious. In effect, once you have "topped off" your essential fatty acid needs, they are "pretty useless" (albeit tasty).

No one has shown any value to eating more than 2 times the RDA of protein for bodybuilding.

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cenosillicaphobiacJust started my 50th lap around the sun, it's never too late!•

No one has shown any value to eating more than 2 times the RDA of protein for bodybuilding.

Well, I don't know about no one.

CONCLUSIONS: These results indicate that approximately 2.3 g x kg(-1) or approximately 35% protein was significantly superior to approximately 1.0 g x kg(-1) or approximately 15% energy protein for maintenance of lean body mass in young healthy athletes during short-term hypoenergetic weight loss.

RDA recommendation is .8 per kg.

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SDJellyBeanMaintaining 3 Years•

You can't look at the one study that supports your idea and throw away the rest. That's simply trying to lawyer science. You need to consider all of the data and try to follow it to a conclusion, not choose a conclusion and work backwards to support it. Note that the first reference contains multiple additional references.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28698222

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5622767/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17136939

There is no benefit to eating excess carbs! That's true! However, there's no benefit to eating excess protein or excess fat as well. You have to eat something, though. You haven't convinced me that there's any optimal macro breakdown. Hit somewhere between 0.4 and 0.8g/lb of body weight in protein and choose most of the rest of your food from a wide variety of more or less "whole" foods (i.e. minimize added sugars and added fats, as well as fatty protein sources) and you'll do fine.

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cenosillicaphobiacJust started my 50th lap around the sun, it's never too late!•

You can't look at the one study that supports your idea and throw away the rest

You can't say "no one" when there is one.

Mine was specifically about trained people eating at a deficit while still training and about muscle retention.

EDIT: your first study supports double the RDA (although agreed not "more than double") And your second study is about women (which OP isn't) and old people (which OP isn't).

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SDJellyBeanMaintaining 3 Years•

And we know that 2.3g/kg is superior to 1.6g/kg how? Your study didn't test that intermediate value. Multiple studies have shown that 2xRDA appears to be an upper bound and your study doesn't contradict that.

The first study was a recent meta-analysis that included multiple previous studies, the other two studies support the idea that bodies work the same, no matter age or gender.

0
Essej86 •

Gotta say, I can’t believe you’re going to have an easy time losing any fat if you’re 5’6” and 130.

I’m the same height and the lowest I’ve been is 135. And that was in high school doing crazy amounts of exercise. I would suggest hitting the weights and hoping the increased muscle mass will help you burn more calories in the future.

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lethalcupOP24M | 5’6” || 120lb || Maintenance•

I mean, what’s your body fat? I’m a pretty lean guy overall but I have a noticeable amount of fat around the waistline that I’m super unsatisfied by. I don’t want to kill off my muscle mass but at the same time I want to get rid of fat before bulking. I think I can get down to 124 or so if the fat gets reduced but I might just recomp and keep the same weight.

1
Slam42 •

Make sure to eat 1-1.2 grams of Protein/lb of body weight per day.

Otherwise, you risk losing substantial amounts of muscle mass as your body breaks it apart for glycogen and amino acids.

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dannongreekyogurt •

Hey man similar stats with the same goal. I'm 5'6 and 152lbs, I too am skinny fat and looking to lose as much fat as possible before I bulk.

How did you get down to 130lbs? I'm plateauing hard and haven't moved in over a month. Looking for advice to see on how you're doing it

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lethalcupOP24M | 5’6” || 120lb || Maintenance•

Hey, I haven’t really lost that much weight myself, but I had been gainin weight rapidly and decided to stop the bleeding early. But, of course you need to make sure CICO is still happening, you might need to measure food if you don’t already to ensure your CI is right and you may need to go a bit lower on your CO estimates.

But I would be less concerned about the weight and more concerned about the appearance, do you look any different in the past month? I usually take a picture every week and compare them and I don’t even bother checking the weight number. It’s hard to say why your weight has plateaued (usually water weight affects things but not for that long), but if you see yourself shrinking then that might be encouraging as well.

For me, I’ve done CICO really hard, deficit of about 600/day and worked out 5 days a week, that’s it really.

1
straightsonSW: 210 CW: 174 GW:160•

You should browse r/fitness or leangains if you want to gain muscles. 17% body fat is fine.

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lethalcupOP24M | 5’6” || 120lb || Maintenance•

I agree, and I do. 17% may be fine and my weight/BMI are in healthy zones but I want to see if I can do better anyway. I’ll quit it and try a lean bulk if it doesn’t work out but I want to see if I can cut the BF for now.

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dannongreekyogurt •

Thanks for the response!

Yeah I'm on a pretty serious deficit myself (1200 cal/day). I should be losing weight, but I'm not. I usually take monthly progress pics, but I'll start taking them weekly to see if I can tell a difference. Looking at my scale everyday and not seeing a change is quite depressing lol.

How much fat do you have left? I know we're all different but what's your waist size? I'm a 30-31 right now. I'm just trying to gauge how low of a weight I should go

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lethalcupOP24M | 5’6” || 120lb || Maintenance•

I estimate I have about 25lb fat on me, and I’m trying to bring it down another 5. Waist size is about 29. For me right now, I have way too much weight on my waist/back and I need that gone, but I don’t have much fat at all on my arms, legs, neck/face or upper body.

If I were you I’d definitely still try to cut weight but don’t get too obsessed with just the weight number. I don’t weigh myself everyday because the progress would feel way too slow.

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Capn_Underpants52M, 186cm, 30kg lost GW1:95kg CW:95kg GW2:15%BF•

r/leangains

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