Against Utilitarian Apathy.

I was originally imagining this as a general defense of collectivism, but it gradually morphed into an attack against of a far-too-common attitude I see uttered again and again.

We have a disturbing proclivity towards a kind of strange Utilitarianism in this day and age, one which responds to the "People on the tracks" debate with a kind of vague "eh" and shrug of the shoulders, a kind of constant self-doubt and self-contradiction wherein in the desire to do good is overrided by a constant fear of doing evil. I'd say that this is mostly a result of the age, and specifically of postmodern trash constantly seeking to "deconstruct" historical heroes and myths, so that you cannot just have Washington the Founder but you also have to have "Washington the Slaveowner" and "Washington the Native Genocider", in short the idea of a hero and heroic deeds have been removed from the discussion of great men, such that you cannot be allowed to celebrate the achievement of America's founding without first anguishing over the lamentable state of the people conquered in the process of attaining America.

What we get by this is what can be considered a denial of fire: people refuse even the idea of a state-sanctioned religion "because what if we have modern day witch burnings?!" People refuse a clearly outlined code of conduct, an enshrinement of the sacred by society at large "Because what if that leads to us creating a dystopian state run by murderers?!" People refuse any kind of morality that isn't consensual, but "consensual morality" is in itself an oxymoron--as it makes a firm statement that there is Good and Evil, that we should try to be Good, but demands that evil isn't opposed in any meaningful capacity, that evil attitudes and evil people should move freely about the greater whole of society because to force goodness on others would be an evil in and of itself.

In fact, the peculiar thing about this Utilitarian Apathy is it instantly assumes that the second you do have values, the second you do define a right and a wrong, you must commit murders; it's like a strange reversal of the old Religious-Nihilism argument that the second you aren't religious, you should just end up committing suicide because there's no reason to live.

On this very forum we have a thread honestly asking, "Well collectivists, if you care about the common good so much why don't you just MURDER the WEAK and SICKLY?! After all they're draining resources from the common good that they can't put back in!" It's as if people are so afraid of stepping on bugs that they reject moving and insist those who do believe in moving can't walk around with stomping an infant's head against rough pavement. We see this again in debates about Race Realism and White Identity: you could have the most perfectly liberal, progressive person in the world arguing against you, they'll say they want to help people, that they care about what's good for everyone, and when you beat their arguments on race they'll finally throw up their hands and say "Well if that's true I guess we just have to GENOCIDE ALL THE BLACKS BECAUSE THEY'RE AN INFERIOR RACE!"

It's not that they accept the dogma or believe it to be true, the more common case is they assume there's someone smarter than the "evil one" who knows the "real truth" and beat them resoundingly in a debate on race realism. But their response to what could happen if they accept the other side as correct reflects a deep doubt and fear of themselves, of what they'd be if they weren't just mindlessly grazing, that any kind of activity that motivates them or makes them passionate for something beyond the self would turn them into a monster.

This apathy falls on the revolutionary as much as the reactionary, whereas the reactionary wants a complete change of society towards something more spiritual, more transcendent of the self, the revolutionary wants a complete change in the economic relations between people and society, however both of these separate desires for change have been rebuffed by a apathetic liberal force which stokes fear over the slightest thought of challenging the herd, of trying to direct others in service of something, of having a little bit of willpower because the second you do is the second you have to take responsibility for your state of life, and for anything that could happen in your desire to change things for the better.

What this has done is robbed people of any kind of future. Mark Fisher talked about "Capitalist Realism", or rather how there's an increasing trend in depictions of the future to not be much different from today, rather than featuring an exciting new world with new economics and new relations between people, instead we see one wherein the liberal status quo has continued for hundreds of years, with the only difference maybe being in the "flavor" of capitalistic humans you see on screen: maybe more brown people here, less white people there, so on.

This attitude will not last however, because it can only ever infest a people but never conquer them, eventually those people will either get conquered in turn by a society which does care about something, which isn't nihilistic, which isn't afraid to act, or such an infestation will be burned out by men appearing in the ranks of those people who aren't afraid to do something. Thus those who whine that, for example, Islam "needs" a reformation are whining without cause: these are people who are used to dealing with their native churches, with the threat of a kind of psuedo-general strike: "Oh I'll just stay home on sunday and not pay a tithe if they don't become more liberal!" They are quite incapable of imagining a religion whose word is law and whose people can exist quite comfortably without modern politics in their Mosque. At the current rate of demographic displacement, it's less that Islam needs a reformation to be in line with modern times--as it's going to become one of the largest religions in the world regardless of terrorism--but perhaps modern times which needs to conform more towards Islam. Sweden will be 30% Islamic by 2050, that number will only continue to grow, if those Muslims form Islamist parties or demand more respect for Islam among the current parties they're in, do people think they will somehow "need" a reform? Why? When they already have growing political influence, when they aren't opposed, why in the world would it need a reform?

As I said, you can only choose to throw off modernity, or be conquered by those who have. But the current spirit of apathy in our world cannot last.

Posted Mar 16, 2018, 9:07 PM UTC

18
69CervixDestroyer69Communist•

You're an idiot.

2
MoprollemsOPWorker Run RWDS•

"no u"

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Fuck1917and1776Constitutional Republic Nationalist•

u/Moprollems

Off topic, but im interested.

Can you talk me about the "Theory of Degeneracy" that explains how the era in which starts woman become the ruling class begins the social decline of said civilization?

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MoprollemsOPWorker Run RWDS•

Can you talk me about the "Theory of Degeneracy" that explains how the era in which starts woman become the ruling class begins the social decline of said civilization?

I would not lay the blame on women, not entirely; however generally speaking societies that become more androgynous or out and out feminine generally are ones which rapidly begin to fall.

Throughout human history, there's never been a powerful, large-scale "matriarchal" society. In fact the general rule of Matriarchal societies is that they generally end up as unadvanced tribes or nomads--not quite nation builders.

This isn't to say women are antithetical to society, in fact they play an exceptionally important role in it. I believe Oswald Spengler was the one who said that women generally carry the genus of society within them because typically they're the ones at home raising their boys to become men. So you can say that Islamic Women are oppressed by Islamic Men, but it would arguably be far more accurate to say that Islamic Women create Islamic Men.

The problem with Women in major leadership roles however, is that women for the most part evolved with an entirely different view of society from men. Men were, for the most part, bound to their tribe: The land they were on was where they would farm food, they had the duty of protecting their tribe with force of arms and should they fail, they'd be sold into slavery or killed on the spot, men had to look after themselves and the tribe was the best vehicle to do that.

Women however, had arguably a more "lucky" fate in that they were something of a resource in much the same way food and water was: they didn't have to tend to their own crop, but rather marry a man with a field to farm on, and should the "tribe" fall then they would be assimilated into the new tribe, given new husbands, give birth to new sons, so on. Tribal loyalty is not a quality inherent in Women and so it had to be enforced by Social Taboos and Force: You had the Rape of The Sabine Women which ended with them begging their brothers and fathers not to fight their husbands and instead peacefully submit to Roman Rule--this is after the Romans kidnapped and raped them. You have Rahab in the Old Testament who betrayed her own people, letting her neighbors and brothers and sisters be killed en masse by the Tribes of Israel. Hell I remember years ago reading an article which found that in a prison where there was no gender-segregation among the prison guards--I.E. Female Guards were overseeing Male Prisoners--a majority of the women were not only becoming lovers of the prisoners they were guarding, but some even got their names tattoo'd on them.

The archtype of the female betraying her "tribe" seems to be a universal one, which is why one of the values men look for in women is loyalty precisely, it's why the noble women in history--such as the Queen of Sparta--were made noble precisely because they were willing to commit suicide over being captured in spite of capture likely being a more merciful fate.

So when you have women come to power, they don't put the interests of the nation, the tribe first, but rather are more motivated by "helping people" and liberal causes--if only Males voted we'd see America as far more right wing than it is currently, the division between pro and anti refugee movements is almost entirely a gendered one wherein Men see it (rightfully I believe) as an invasion of foreign peoples, as letting the enemy in the gates, whilst Women see it more as a kind of vague humanitarianism.

Secondly you have the case of Modern Feminism which is absolutely the worst thing to befall women and--to some extent--society at large. First in the case of female suffrage: the suffragettes were opposed by women in the beginning, primarily because those women imagined that if they'd be given the right to vote, they'd be expected to serve in the military. This was because voting was almost entirely originally seen as a tradeoff, you earned the right to vote when you accepted the responsibility that came with it: that you would have to defend the national body with your life, and in some cases it went further than that at insisted you be a property owner too! You essentially had to have material bonds ensuring your loyalty to the Nation in order to have a say on national policy.

When women were given the vote, this more than anything else--even Universal Male Suffrage--moved us away from this idea of voting as a Civic Duty, as something that came with responsibility and sacrifices, but to a right inherent in every single person. It philosophically opened the door to voting by inmates, to this illegal immigrant debacle, to a whole host of problems because it just said anyone can vote, everyone has a right to vote, even if not everyone is equal nor equally bound to the nation.

Still, things can be maintained if you still keep some of the social taboos and strong men can reel in women--generally speaking as long as Marriages and the family are strong, women will mimic their husband's views. However Feminism soon was attacking that: it wanted more women in the workforce, equal pay, no-fault divorces (which is a disaster for marriage) and then gradually dissolution of the social taboos: open marriages/relationships, an end to "slut shaming", encouraging female promiscuity. What you end up with is that traditional feminine values are taught less and less, women spend their younger years acting like "sluts" and when the biological clock keeps ticking louder and louder they'll realize that the men aren't calling anymore, and they can either pin down a "beta" male they secretly resent for more financial security, or spend their middle age alone and growing increasingly bitter. Women in the workforce, being encouraged both via social shaming and hiring quotas, similarly brings more trouble on the woman because they always want to marry up, and so they end up embarrassed if they make more money than their husband, or if their husband becomes a stay-at-home father, it's unnatural for them, like wearing someone else's skin.

So what you end up with is angry, dissatisfied women, voting for increasingly liberal policies which harm them and the nation as a whole without what essentially amounts to a man to temper them. You end up with the dissolution of the family, more social shaming of masculinity (under the guise of attacking "toxic masculinity", toxic going from an adjective to a verb there) then you create a society which cannot defend itself, which second guesses itself constantly, and opens the gates to its own destruction under the guise of "humanitarian compassion".

1
alienated_proleAbolish the Spectacle•

I'd say that this is mostly a result of the age, and specifically of postmodern trash constantly seeking to "deconstruct" historical heroes and myths, so that you cannot just have Washington the Founder but you also have to have "Washington the Slaveowner" and "Washington the Native Genocider", in short the idea of a hero and heroic deeds have been removed from the discussion of great men, such that you cannot be allowed to celebrate the achievement of America's founding without first anguishing over the lamentable state of the people conquered in the process of attaining America.

Suppose you grew up knowing someone, such as a respected member of your community (perhaps your neighbor, a teacher, local business-owner, etc). This person is universally well-liked, and lives what most people call a "good" life, raises a loving family as normal, volunteers to charitable causes, etc. Let's say they do so many good deeds and are so well-liked that they become a sort of "local hero" or symbol of hope for the community.

However, after their death you find substantial evidence that this person was actually a serial child-molester, had victimized dozens, and was never at any point repentant or sorry for what they did. You have a choice- you can A) Let the town have their so-called "hero" or B) Reveal their crimes. What do you do?

1
MoprollemsOPWorker Run RWDS•

Suppose you grew up knowing someone, such as a respected member of your community (perhaps your neighbor, a teacher, local business-owner, etc). This person is universally well-liked, and lives what most people call a "good" life, raises a loving family as normal, volunteers to charitable causes, etc. Let's say they do so many good deeds and are so well-liked that they become a sort of "local hero" or symbol of hope for the community.

However, after their death you find substantial evidence that this person was actually a serial child-molester, had victimized dozens, and was never at any point repentant or sorry for what they did. You have a choice- you can A) Let the town have their so-called "hero" or B) Reveal their crimes. What do you do?

>Comparing a "Nice Guy Pedophile" to fucking George Washington.

Firstly in your pedophile example, you just have a supposed nice-guy, a "pillar of the community", but not the founder of a country or a leader in any real capacity, secondly you're certainly not arguing in good faith when you try to present some binary example of "Either support Washington and by proxy pedophilia or reject them both"

In the case of the Pedophile his crimes should be brought to light and restitution made for his victims, in the case of Washington the obsessive focus on his crimes are aggressive attempts of subverting this country and accomplish nothing other than trying to tear the foundations of our society apart.

As an aside, the Natives are a conquered people, they aren't our own people. Washington crushing an enemy tribe or another is of no concern to the American people.

1
zzzztopportalNeolib/Soclib•

Does anybody disagree with you, really? The argument seems to be "society ought to do what is moral," which is a tautology.

1
chewingofthecudFatherland. Family. Work.•

This kind of shrill IT'S EITHER LIBERALISM/SOCIALISM OR RACE WAR!!! or WASHINGTON WAS JUST A SLAVE DRIVING NAZI!!! hysteria is just a tacit admission that liberals and socialists have definitively lost the debate on the topics of biology and history. People who say these things are simply to be laughed at. Don't underestimate the rhetorical power of mockery. This is a big part of why the alt right is gaining cultural ground and the left is ceding it hand over fist.

This hatred of great things and conceptual boundaries is just the modus operandi of the Enlightenment. Have you ever actually read Joyce's Ulysses? It is the most fucking repugnant thing I have ever read. And yet it's lauded as the greatest literary production of the 20th century. And there's a very good reason why.

It's not as though Joyce was a hack. Joyce was a formidably learned man, with a similarly formidable command of the English language, as well as a few dead ones. And he decided to deploy his literary powers in rewriting the Odyssey... in the form of a cuckold wandering aimlessly around the city masturbating and reminiscing about better days.

Now, on this account, if Joyce wasn't such a shithead of a socialist I might be forgiven for mistaking Bloom as a brilliant embodiment of the Enlightenment. But I don't think that's it. I think Joyce's point here was levelling. He wants to mix high and low culture together, grind it up like a AAA porterhouse steak mixed with dogshit, and serve it up to you in a perfectly grilled, medium rare patty with salad on the side and a lightly toasted Brioche bun. And guess what? the cultural critics of the 20th century bolt it down like a dog with his master's back turned, and trip over themselves to fellate him. They're not even fully conscious as to why they love it so.

But I'm conscious as to why: it embodies the zeitgeist. And that zeitgeist is one that simply cannot tolerate undiluted greatness. So when someone eruditely defecates all over a cornerstone of Western literature, that is simply too delicious for the Cultural Marxists and their immediate progenitors to pass up. This is all part of a larger picture of entropic universalism that seeks to eliminate difference and distinction, and can only end in a sort of monocultural heat death of uniform beige mediocrity.

But you can pull the rug out from under it, simply by laughing at it. Joyce's Ulysses, coastal "elites", liberal democracy itself... all these things traffic in prestige and not in merit. And prestige cannot survive laughter.

Just one generation of ruthless mockery is all it takes.

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