Source
r/Shadowrun•
Profusius

About focus creation

Before I start I just want to mention that I dont know all the english terms because I have the books in german. I have the street grimoire and the forbidden ways or something like that so i do have all the magic books afaik.

So I just did my first run with my first character, but I have read a lot in the books because I did the gm in 2 previous runs. I wanted to do an alchemist mage character, focused on the creation and use of foci and astral combat. I have found a lot of houserules on this reddit to fix alchemy, which I am going to discuss with the group but I am mainly frustrated with the focus creation, because I could buy a weapon focus lvl 3 or 4 at character generation, but with the maximum of points in magic an focus creatoony( both 6, at least the natural maximum for chargen) can not expect to create a focus better than 3 probability wise. Do i really need to max that out even further just to get something better than i can bux for not even that much cash at chargen? i feel like that kind of ruins the depth of my char, that i have to put all my karma into this because I would otherwise be useless in the main aspect of the char. Also do I really have to do this initiation Thing twice to learn the advanced alchemy metamagic? thats like 10 runs worth of karma for something so crucial for an alchemist. I hope you have some houserule like solutions or, even better, can tell me what I misunderstood.

conclusion: Thank you guys for all your input, I am gonna concentrate on the alchemy for now and just buy one or two foci when I have the opportunity.

Posted Mar 19, 2018, 11:40 AM UTC · edited

519
SaarlakGotta Get Mine!•

Alchemy is fantastic at doing what it does: making Preparations that are (mechanically) less effective than direct Spellcasting. I love Alchemy and enjoy the possibilities but don't kid yourself in thinking that it brings as many options (specifically on the fly) as Spellcasting.

Artificing is... dude, just buy your foci from a talismonger. I have played Mages that only had a single focus, other that never had any. It isn't a required piece of kit (like bullets to a gun Sam). In addition, due to Addiction rules if you have too many Foci you gonna get hooked, my man. This isn't D&D where everybody loves you for making them a Sword of Awesome +4.

Disenchanting doesn't need to exist. You can sell a found magically doohickey or turn it into a handful of reagents. Your choice.

Astral Combat is very niche and requires an all-in build style otherwise you'll just get murdered by a Spirit.

With all of that said if you want to stick with this character concept (sort of) I would recommend investing in Alchemy and completely ignoring Artificing and Disenchanting. Alchemy is excellent for making Armor, Increase [Attribute], Astral Armor, Combat Sense, etc Preparations. Basically, find spells that are unopposed or require Sustaining to be of value. Yes, a Mage can sustain all of these spells but that -2 (or -1 with Psyche) penalty for each sustained spell adds up quickly.

5
ProfusiusOP•

Yeah thats basically what I have done but I still plan on buying some foci and taking the addiction bc thats not a bad thing imo as it defines my char a bit more and makes him unique.

2
SaarlakGotta Get Mine!•

I always recommend creating the Concept and then putting the mechanics where they need to be. A Focus Addiction could be a perfect match for your character. Be sure to clear everything with your GM because it really sucks to get a "oh by the way" mid session.

1
Zaiyyash•

Here's the guide to playing a character that makes foci in Shadowrun:

Open your book to the rules for making foci. Cover them in whiteout. Pretend they don't exist.

Take some appropriate knowledge skill about foci. "Enchanting" or whatever you feel like.

Buy foci as normal. Fluff your buying as making them yourself. All availability rolls model your efforts to find the right components.

At a fluff level, I think I have to disagree with the people who are insisting that enchanting is an NPC-only type thing. I think there's natural thematic links all over the place. A person who is an enchanter first and a runner second could be trying to fund their research outside the corporate structure, or have a tradition that just doesn't play nice with normal commerce. I think the Open Source movement is a great set of themes for hooding-oriented or even just influenced runners, and open source magic ties in nicely to enchanting. Even do the Maker Culture thing with it if you want. Analogies in other archetypes might be junkyard riggers or tinkerers that build their own drones, or hackers coding their own stuff. Loads of ways to fluff it, just use the normal buying mechanics for the crunch.

3
TheRealStardragon•

Here is my advice: Buy your foci, you are a mercenary, not a focus-maker.

Making them is an own career for someone who focusses on that, but that leaves you as shopkeeper or professional enchanter and not as Shadowrunner anymore. A Shadowrunner does not make things... they steal and shoot people in the face for money.

Use that money to buy the tools you need for your actual job and use the karma saved from not levelling a shopkeeper in getting better at what you actually chose as career.

There is also a huge difference to a weapon's master who can build and repair items or a car-mechanic: For their skills there are applications during Shadowruns for their mechanical abilities. For "focus making" there is no practical application in your actual profession (and once you have your two, three main foci you are also not using the skill anymore, like... at all), it is not bringing anything to the table to make a run go better for a team.

2
ProfusiusOP•

But I LOVE being someone who creates things(at least in the other more D&D like rpg I played). I am always excited when I find new materials, I can be creative and have cool ideas to implement into the game, and I just dont want to be a stupid combatmage. I usually try to do everything as peaceful and pacifistic as possible(which isnt too peaceful most of of the times) because this requires creativity and planning and thats exactly what I want. I just need a way to make this viable, or at least more viable than just spending like15k nyuyen. Thats why I love the alchemy system here because its basically "weaker" spellcasting with more flexibility.

1
TheRealStardragon•

Yes, I get that and have been on that path as well.

And "making things" works very well in Shadowrun in many aspects. You can play kickass mechanics, you can play an alchemist.

But doing foci right is just a profession in its own that has no use at all in your actual career.

I can be creative and have cool ideas to implement into the game

But that is not what foci enable you to do. They make your spellcasting (etc etc) better by a few dice. That was it. You cannot make all kinds of cool things with the foci or create new types. Think of the spells you could get with the karma saved from your shopkeeper career.

and I just dont want to be a stupid combatmage.

I strongly advice against combatmages, they are too single minded. But you present it here as "you are either a stupid combatmage or a cool focus-maker", which is pretty flawed. Making foci is not opening the creative options you think it does. Shadowrun offers ways to be very creative, mages offer vast, vast ways to be creative (and combat spells are actually not very effective).

Alchemy opens options yes. But forget foci in specific. Just buy them to get your bonus to dice pools that allow you to actually do something.

4
ProfusiusOP•

Yeah I think you are right I mean the main focus of my char is alchemy anyways and I also still need a lot of karma for the advanced alchemy metamagic so I will just focus on that. Still makes me sad tho because I really like the "astral gear" theme that foci have but their effects truly are not glamorous at all.

1
Bamce•

its basically "weaker" spellcasting with more flexibility.

No flexibility. You are locked in at what you made and that is it. You make say 5 fireball preps, and it turns out you needed 6? Well too bad. You made forcr 5 fireball preps, and it turns out you needed to cover a larger/smaller area? Too bad

1
ProfusiusOP•

Ok i get your point but what I meant is that IF you plan ahead well enough you can lay smart traps and/or outplay your enemies bc you dont need to be there and you dont need to actively cast the spell.

1
Bamce•

I am curious as to what situations you are thinking of that require you to be on site when you could have just done whatever you were looking to do then.

You are also relying upon the right people triggering your trap. In addition to magicial security not spotting it. And a whole bunch of other X factors you simply cannot control

1
TheRealStardragon•

Yes, that can happen. But in Shadowun the game is often very dynamic. Laying traps can be a valid tactic, but breaking in Shadowrun is not like running a dungeon in D&D.

You are in quick and out again, at best unseen by anyone. If you get into a lengthy encounter with back and forth the timer starts for police/corp sec showing up (which means you have lost).

Also, goals do change. It is not that the dungeon lies there waiting and the players have the initiative. In SR, no one expect the runners, but once they made their move and have been noticed, a whole lot of groups (inside as well as outside) will start to react themselves.

Alchemic preparations are very powerful as you have extra, already prepared spells. But I encourage you to think far beyond just "fireballs". That is something grenades can do as well, you have mundanes for that. The mage has many more options that are far more versatile. Flip through the spell list and think of creative stuff beyond "it explodes and kills" (and as a sidenote: In Shadowrun it is always best not to do violence at all, if you do violence, use non-lethal and only if that failed pick the worst option to go lethal; carrying only fireballs-in-a-can basically limits you to the worst-case from the start).

1
Bamce•

focused on the creation

So an npc?

and use of

Soooo any normal mage?

and astral combat.

Is attrocious

feel like that kind of ruins the depth of my char, that i have to put all my karma into this because I would otherwise be useless in the main aspect of the char.

Thats pretty spot on.

thats like 10 runs worth of karma

Initation is only 10+(3xgrade). So 13 and 16.

Artificing in shadowrun is bad. This is not dnd/pathfinder where being able to use some feats to rain magic items on your party is a worthwhile investment

2
ShadowcatX2000Average Awakened•

Some things, like enchanting, are not meant for Shadowrunners as a viable option. That aside, it is possible to make decent foci.

Craft a low power focus but find ways to raise the limit. (Teamwork and workshop for example.)

1
TheRealStardragon•

Also do I really have to do this initiation Thing twice to learn the advanced alchemy metamagic? thats like 10 runs worth of karma for something so crucial for an alchemist.

Jumping in here: Two initiations are 13 + 16 = 29 Karma. Depending on the runs you do, how long you play (session length so what constitutes a run), how often you play (usually groups that play rarely give out more karma) and how generous karma you are awarded, you get 6 to 16 Karma per run. Calculating with "some 9" is not too far off, so we're speaking about three to five sessions/runs.

If you actually only get 3 karma per run/session, your group needs to talk about this!

1
ProfusiusOP•

we usually played 3 runs which where 5-10 hours, and we usually do this in one session for immersion and time reasons. the runs were actually official runs we purchased, that gave out 4-6 karma

1
TheRealStardragon•

That is complete bollocks. Stick to the rules from core:

You get general karma for:

  • Survival 2
  • Achieving ALL goals 2
  • Achieving SOME goals 1
  • Highest Enemy Dicepool /6 (rounded down): This gives 2 to 3 Karma, usually, maybe even 4 for an enemy dicepool of 24 dice.

Now for individual karma for:

  • Character was exceptionally heroic or smart 1
  • Good roleplay 1
  • Character advanced the story 1
  • Character used fitting skill at the right moment 1
  • Exceptionally humorous or dramatic roleplay 1

+2 if you get little money, -2 if you did a "job for cold bastards" (which should pay more money).

Note that is for a run, not a session, but the first block gives around 6 karma.
The individual block gives some 4 or so. I would not sit down with a player who'd not deserve at least 4 of those. I handle these personal rewards in the way that I give each player the same and in the long run get rid of players who are not contributing to warrant that.

That is ~10 karma per standard-run at not-too-long sessions. If you play a long session (10 hours on a whole saturday), I'd easily add 2 or even more; add some more if you play very rarely. Subtract some if you play shorter and very regularly.

If you play standard-length sessions that are not a complete run, you should still get some 6-8 karma out of a session, if you play a whole saturday, I'd even give near twice that (because you as players meet and the Runners "do stuff", no matter if you do one run in two sessions or two).

No matter what: I think your GM should assign more karma for the runs you already did and to me it seems your GM left out the individual rewards.

That "4 to 6 Karma" you mentioned should be something for relatively short runs that are done in some 3 or 4 hours max, but even then you should get some individual points.

2
jitterscaffeine•

Are you looking to be an Aspected Enchanter? It’s a tough road, believe me. It’s really Karma heavy because you don’t start with any “free” known preparations, so it’ll cost 5 Karma per “spell” you want. Depending on your priority spread, you should have quite a few skills to throw around to put in combat skills and any secondary skill you might want.

Alchemical Archer used to be pretty popular, using injection arrows with liquid Preparations to great effect.

1