Source
r/poker•
JohnRusty

Deep 1/2 PLO game hand history

Playing a 1/2 rounds game. Don't feel super confident in my PLO play, at least not compared to Hold Em, but I still think I'm a winning player at this game. Looking to get better at PLO because that seems to be the direction that live poker is moving, especially over the last couple months where I play. Currently making my way through Hwang's Big Play PLO book.

I'm in the 8 seat, sitting at around $600. First time playing here, they all know each other very well. Most of the rest of the table is sitting $100-$400, and plays very loose passive. However, the 1 and 2 seats are both very deep ($1000+), and I've seen the 1 seat pull off some good bluffs, seems like a pretty competent reg who's gunning for the 2 seat's money. Seat 2 straddles nearly every PLO hand for $10 (not this one, for some reason), because they allow you to straddle from any position at the table. Very little pre flop raising in Omaha, almost every hand is 3-5 players paying the straddle, then calling when seat 2 will sometimes bump it up to $35ish.

OOTH:

I'm UTG, no straddle this hand.

I'm dealt KKJ8 ds. Pot it to $10. 5 callers, including 1 and 2 seat.

Flop K45r ($60). I only had 1 backdoor flush draw. I bet $50. Seat 1 calls.

Turn Qc ($160). Brings a flush draw. I don't have clubs. I pot again, seat 1 calls

River Tx ($480). I check, with about $350 behind. Seat 1 covers me by a lot, and he pots it. I go into the tank.

Reasons I thought about calling:

  • V's line doesn't make much sense. The most obvious draws to call my flop bet with have bricked. Have a tough time seeing him calling my flop bet with a hand that would make a wrap on the turn, as that would mean he's calling flop with at most one pair. AJ or J9 paired with a set or two pair is a plausible hand I suppose.

  • My line screams a strong but vulnerable hand that's scared by the runout and reaaaaly doesn't want to see a river bet. May think that I'd be uncomfortable with punting off $600 here without the nuts (he wouldn't be wrong).

  • J blocker. I block J9 and AJ, which are the only combos of hands that could possibly beat me.

  • SPR is also really low at this point. I only have to be right about 30% of the time for this to be a profitable call

Reasons against calling:

  • I play tighter than average at this table, and he knows it. He's def not betting anything besides a bluff and a straight here.

Also, should I be potting the turn with bare top set?

Posted Mar 26, 2018, 1:29 AM UTC · edited

917
FarhaFan•

Yes you have to call. Yes it is a cooler.

10
BERRISOUR•

this is a snap

8
JohnRustyOP•

Are you ever shoving river? Or checking the turn?

What if the river completes some obvious draws (6,7,8 or c)

3
tapewar•

No real reason to shove river, but maybe instead a small thin vbet like $100.

Checking to induce doesnt seem too great because the river seems so far fetched that you would fold now.

Bet small > check > shove

5
stillnotking•

What is a vbet looking to be called by, though? 55? I'm definitely putting villain on a big draw on the turn. Perfect spot to check to induce on the river.

6
tapewar•

Most obvious missed draw is 678x, you also have the Jx which blocks some percentage of his value. Having no clubs in your hand helps for bluff catching too.

You basically have the best hand you could have unless you pot AKJT on the flop into 5 callers.

Have to call this or you would be very exploitable

6
JohnRustyOP•

Everyone seems to be in agreement.

I called, he showed what I believe was 763c2c for the bricked 20 card wrap+FD (didn't get a great look at what he showed, but I know he had a shitty FD, and a some sort of wrap that wasn't 678). I scooped.

Also: shouldn't V be getting it in on the turn to realize their equity?

5
Apricotjello•

V getting it in on the turn is probably not a good idea, you’ve shown massive strength and he has to think he’s got ~0 fold equity.

OTT he’s beating nothing, his flush draw could be dirty, and you’re going to have to call it off anyway on so many rivers that he hits that he can just call and fold if you shove river, and also bluff lots of scare cards (as he did here). Essentially he has like 30 cards in the deck he can either hit or bluff at.

6
SUpirate•

Odd word choice. He is trying to realize his equity by calling the turn and trying to make the best hand. Villain raising the turn has some merit, but the main reason to do it is if he thinks he has good fold equity, which he probably doesn't.

Villain did make 2 mistakes though. He played this garbage hand, and the river shove is terrible given the runout.

3
DickIz•

read the plo quick pro manual. You can find it for free in a pdf with a little googling. Only PLO book worth reading imo. I would check that flop you wont be getting much value. Better to check raise

3
GrayFaceNoSpace•

An unimproved set on K45 will never be the nuts on the river. No flush, and two heavily discounted straights isn't too bad, as far as non board pairing runouts go. Checking folding on an above average runout implies the line you took is irrational.

2
tapewar•

Thats really cool that any flop with 45 will always have a straight by the river if the board doesnt pair. What other flops can do this?

Edit: think i figured it out. 54, 65, JT, and T9

2
stillnotking•

Minimum defend frequency here is 58%. Are you in the top 58% of your range? Obviously yes, 3rd nuts, you must call.

ETA: with the J blocker, too, didn't see that. Only way I don't snap call this is against the most ultra passive villains.

2
VarriandaThinks he's good at poker•

I think you have to call with the J blocker

2
Eze_69•

I stopped reading at the stack sizes, you having $600 and everyone else having $100-400 is not deep, in fact it's the opposite of deep.

0
killerkudzoo•

However, the 1 and 2 seats are both very deep ($1000+)

2
JohnRustyOP•

Main villain covers me and we're playing for stacks at the river

1