Maru Vs Soo. Discussion and Analysis of Dominance

Spoiler

hello! :D Firstly, I am aware that I am far from being a Starcraft 2 guru. I simply think there is something interesting here worth discussing.

I originally titled it "...Mental Dominance" but I dont want to give the wrong impression about SoOs incredible gangsterass starcraft prowess overall

SoO is one of a handful of players that can, time to time, be described as "perhaps the greatest player in Starcraft 2s history when accounting for longevity." Or something like that.

That being said.

In this particular series, he was made to look (I Believe) as if he were a bit of a puppet throughout this series, most obviously in game 4.

SoO had MASSIVE advantages at multiple points in this game and never capitalized. And, it even looked as if capitalizing on his advantages was a futile or trivial task against someone like Maru that was so in tune to his game.

These advantages being when he scouted a proxy rax build early on and then later developed a bank over 5 times his opponents while holding the desired amount of bases on the map. (Which I understand is not often viewed as a big deal by the community)

Since Maru never "felt" like he was in trouble despite all of this, it is the natural assumption of the observer to justify this display with imbalance.

I personally believe this is where the psychological edge lies. If you can make your opponent believe that they are at a fundamental disadvantage that should hardly be overcome(racial imbalance in this case), you have seeded within them a doubt that you only need to nurture and cultivate so that it will, in turn, destroy themselves. (NUKES AND MISSILES) You have given them the excuse they needed to not better themselves, overcome themselves, and therefore overcome you, the opponent. Think Avilo :D

When you fall prey to the idea of imbalance as an observer, you tend to overlook SoOs "poor" (considering the expertise at this level of play and his incredible history) reaction to his early scout, or his ineptitude in allowing his swarm hosts to get removed from the game entirely in a moment of weakness. Weakness, I am arguing, CREATED and executed on by Maru.

There is a deeper reason why someone like Maru in those moments doesnt feel like they are ever in trouble than imbalance.

“One thing I've learned in the last seven years: in every game and con there's always an opponent, and there's always a victim. The trick is to know when you're the latter, so you can become the former.”

Think of Savior, Boxer, Life, SoS, etc.

My opinion, and it is only an opinion of course, and my argument, is this...

Perhaps Maru's greatest strength next to his technical skill is his development of strategy and gamesmanship throughout his years of playing. This is something he has always had over his opponents in the early game, and it is this awareness of how to make THEM the victim and HIM the "opponent" of the victim that we see result in dominance. He has translated this ability to the late game.

I think that if you watch this series again with a keen eye, you will see how brilliant Maru has become, at least in certain moments such as this one. Brilliance can be fleeting, and Starcraft has a history of showing its fleeting nature since day one.

Enjoy the moment, it is fun to watch this greatness, which at anytime could be reversed on him and used against him if he were to face an opponent who was, >in that moment< a smarter player.

Posted Apr 5, 2018, 6:33 PM UTC

1421
pnoughtnp•

Well said.

If you don't believe you CAN win, then you've already lost.

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FuuriousDOP•

indeed

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Joong•

Interesting analysis. Although I think you put too much emphasis on the early to mid game. soO indeed didn't capitalize on his early lead but he still had the lead in the late game. Maru played insanely well but from watching the season 1 finals and today's match against soO, I really can't see anything a zerg can do against that late game. (and neither can soo, seeing how he was sitting on 160 supply with a 10k/10k bank)

Again, Maru played insanely well but I don't think blaming balance is far from the truth either.

Also, I think game 2 was very interesting as well. Felt like soO had that for sure but Maru showing that Marauders are very good in TvZ.

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DanteSSStylishJin Air Green Wings•

There are plenty of things he can do. Some examples would be:

  • If he's as good as Maru, he should be able to also control a 2 spell caster army and use infestor/viper spells to trade along with swarm host to push ghost back. This is just theoretical, as I believe we will have to wait for Rogue to pull this off, for he's probably the only zerg in this tourney who have been practicing that. But still, with queen for tranfuse, infestor capable of neural reverse emp and viper abduct, they should trade evenly with seeker and snipes, at which point zerg econ advantage will kick in.
  • Also soO had enough econ to do any amount of harass he wanted with nydus. Cracklings is enough to do some chip damage. Or afford just 10 mutas to kill all harassment like banshee or solo nuke or hellion. Or max out on hydra roach viper before raven got out of hand and trade in as he build his late game. I don't know, just anything. He did nothing that whole game.
    I know that soO is infinitely better than I am, but I feel like he hasn't been practicing enough against this style. I can't wait to see what Rogue has in store for Maru.

Edit: also just want to add another example: He could've did rapid tech switches to push in. Just trade in with ultra ling bane corruptors, focus on ghosts and tanks and save some corruptors and then remax with hydra broodlord infestor. His perfect army might never beat maru's army, but 2 or 3 of them might. Instead he just kinda sat there with a comp that cant trade efficiently with maru's comp. I don't think you are supposed to ever get favorable trades against them anyway.

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SooKingSc2•

apart from capitalizing on early game lead, i dont think he could do to win late game versus maru. The problem is with the ghost with raven secret missle so cost efficient against late game zerg compo. Ultra broodlord is too clunky to control especially in maps with many choke areas like neon violet square. Corruptors are hard countered by turrets vikings and ravens. Look at how soo sacrifices his whole corruptors army to kill off 4 or 5 ravens.

Infestors are the only viable unit in the late game with fungals. But sadly it alone can not solve the problem since the only hope you can get is terran clumps up the ghosts but even unlikely in the highest pro level

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pso6Ting•

I think the way to counter it is to keep flooding terran with ling/bane and just prevent them from taking bases. Don't let them settle into a slow game where they pick off your units with spellcasters. See Dark vs Maru on Abyssal Reef from the GSL semifinals. Or Dark vs Maru on Backwater from WESG.

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Manae•

Flood ling/bane against mech?

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Coyrex1•

I like this a lot. I think zerg may be disadvantaged a bit late game even with all the points above made though. It is slight thoufh. Most of why maru won is cause he controlled and played better. We will see how maru fairs if he faces a better late game zerg (dark and rogue in particular).

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DanteSSStylishJin Air Green Wings•

Don't get me wrong, I don't think soO could have ever defeat Maru. Maru right now is playing a style that was deemed basically impossible at a level we've never seen before. SoO is solid, but he's just really solid. Given his tendency to freeze in late game and tilt, I think he didn't have a chance.
The comp to beat Maru comp was not ultra broodlord corruptor to begin with. I imagine to beat that comp cost efficiently you would need infestors and viper at the same number as ghost and raven, also with queen and some dps units to buffer and heal. Maybe there's a way to beat it by throwing money at it. Maybe infestor neural spell is a valid strat when you have 15 of them. I guess we'll see how zergs like Dark or Rogue who single handedly changed the meta react to this.

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SooKingSc2•

soo before the ghost and raven buff he took quite a few games off maru in last year. In the race wars he did beat maru convincingly in a macro game.

Mass infestors and vipers might be a viable strategy. I have not seen any player tried that so i dont know. But i doubt it might now change much in a late game when terran economy is solid and be able to produce ghosts easily compare to infestors. EMP , snipe + raven to detect unborrow is just too much to handle.

As a matter of fact, rogue and dark didn't beat maru in a late late game like that. Rogue wins are based on timing attack and all-in. Dark wins against maru on games which he capitalize in his economy in early game which soo didn't. Besides, Maru beat Dark convincingly using the lategame composition in game 4 when his economy is established solidly in 4 bases

But my point is not that Soo could have defeat Maru or not. It is the garbable late game t v z meta has become. In hots people complain about cancerous swarmhost. But at least it produce exciting gameplay when players have to defend them all times with protoss warp-in and hellions run by killing drones( look at parting vs scarlett as example). Now terran just turtle shamelessly by building missle turrets, nukes and snipe with little worry about harassment. And viewers dont have problems with that.

It is ridiculous the costs of terran lategame army is cheaper than zerg's in late game composition. Broodlord costs 300/250, ultra 300/200 while ghosts cost 150/125 and raven 100/200 !.

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FuuriousDOP•

"I really can't see anything a zerg can do against that late game. (and neither can soo, seeing how he was sitting on 160 supply with a 10k/10k bank)" Exactly!! And that speaks to my whole point. Noone watching can "see" anything that zerg can do there. But wouldn't it be silly to think that if soo knew the exact right composition, position, and transitions to make at any point in that game, that he wouldn't easily crush the opponent?

It is exactly that "mental positioning" that we all have within us, that we all experience, of futility, THAT is what maru is capitalizing on. Whether or not he is super consciously aware of it or not.

And of course theres simply a lot of truth in what you say as well

4
SerenityNowSC2•

Again, Maru played insanely well but I don't think blaming balance is far from the truth either.

I don't know why anyone would argue that Terran is OP when in the past 6 months have been 2 Terran Premier wins and 5 Zerg Premier wins.

And since the big 4.0 patch there have been 3 Zerg Premier wins and 2 Premier Terran wins.

In the past 6 months Zerg is the race that is, BY FAR, the most succesful race with 5 Premier wins and 3 Premier runner ups. Terran during this time have 2 Premier wins and 0 Premier runner ups.

http://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments

Arguing Terran being OP considering the above is nothing else but ridiculous.

1†
NoxZSK Telecom T1•

Also worth pointing out that both Terran Premier wins are Maru.

4
Joong•

So it's 100% skill that Maru comes back from so many early deficits (today against soO and in the finals against Dark)? I'm not saying it's a complete balance fault. I'm just stating what I see. Maru playing extremely well and two top level zergs not being able to cash in their leads.

It doesn't always have to be the extreme. Saying that balance has nothing to do with results is just as ridiculous as saying that results are completely based on balance. It's in between and in this case, I can see the argument going either way.

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SerenityNowSC2•

So it's 100% skill that Maru comes back from so many early deficits

Yes, that and Soo:s inability to take advantage of this. He also went Mech and went in to turtle mode wich was a great choise as that slowly allowed him building up to a point where he was not longer behind. Soo also attacked into said turtle Mech several times. There were many opportunities for Soo to do damage. Artosis pointed this out several times during the game. F.e he used his Swarmhosts to attack the army of Maru over and over, instead of going to the north north east part of the map, wich was then yet not taken, to attack Marus main base with the locust. Soo kept banging his head against the wall instead of looking for actuall openings in Marus defecence, wich were few but they were there.

I'm not saying it's a complete balance fault

Again it's not a balance fault AT ALL! Zerg have won more then Terran, alot more in the past 6 months! Zerg have also won more since the big design patch! Zerg have not only won more finals, they have also been in more finals then Terran.

As soon as Terran wins something it's OP? How about the fact that Zerg is winning more? Shall we just ignore that? Terran not allowed to win anything, becuase then it's OP? Because that is exactly what you are saying, you are aware of that right?

In this game Soo simply wasn't playing very well while Maru was playing some of the best SC2 I have ever seen.

5
epictoadsJin Air Green Wings•

It's worth noting that it's not the first time Maru has bullied his opponents on a psycological level. He was overconfident to the point of throwing away nukes, battlecrusiers etc. But he's always been one of the most confident and aggressive players in game.

It's not the first time soO has crumbled mentally either, especially in the lategame and even more so against terran. So it's really no suprise this happened.

2
SwankyTiger10•

You nailed it dude. "Weakness, I am arguing, CREATED and executed on by Maru." Hate all the bullcrap balancing arguments (especially terran vs. zerg late game). This wasn't about this at all. He CREATED the advantages 100%. I'm a Huge soO fan but jesus h macy... Maru is the greatest sc2 player on the face of the Earth right now. Definitely gunna win this tournament, which would give him 3 out of 4 korean tournament wins this season so far. And the only one he didn't win was IEM Katowice when he lost in semifinals against rogue which was an INSane game. I believe if he had won that he would have beat classic giving him first place in every single tournament this year..

2
HuTSEATerran•

Ghost raven is definitely strong, but we need to see more than just Maru utilising it before we can agree its too strong - Zerg early and midgame are very powerful now, and it's only recently been that terran late game looks superior.

2
ETisMEZeNEX•

The reason why soo didn't capitalize the early game lead is because the map favors turtling and doesn't have that many ways to do damage to double CC.

The third is easily defensible and soo ensure to maintain the lead by delaying the forth with swarmhosts and get to broodlord end game composition.

Imo the only questionable move is the swarmhosts but losing them is not. They are worthless by the time they are killed.

Maru wasn't that far behind because of the double CC expand and he transitioned to raven vikings which stops the end game broodlord push soo was looking for.

Its just a great map for turtling mech and raven ghost comp is too hard to deal with right now.

2
FuuriousDOP•

Think of the billionaire on the first page

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

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