r/yugioh•
essemdd

Lair of Darkness thoughts so far.

Discussion

Doing a short discussion on how every card from the deck has been treating me.

Lair of Darkness.
The good thing about this card is that it lets you tribute a monster, to activate effects not for a tribute summon. What I don't like is that it summons tokens to the turn's player. (during the end phase)
If a tribute(s) happen on your turn, you get tokens. On your opponent's turn, they get tokens.
And while you may think well then they have more things I can tribute...Usually it's as a win more mechanic because your opponent has no field/hand and can't put something on board to tribute and you want to advance the gamestate even though you could just attack. "With no monsters left on the field, I summon dark magician"
Sometimes it's a way to block link zones, but most of the time you're just giving your opponent a way to block damage. (but you still take the damage! yeah not this time) 9/10 times if you've attacked the hand and field to cripple your opponent there's no point putting tokens on their field.
The worst part about this card is that it activates to summon, now that sounds benign, but the amount of times I got ogre'd on my EP, shrek would be proud.

Ahrima, king of wickedness.
Name sounds impressive but he's not that amazing. On paper he's really good but because of the way diabolos works he's a glorified terraforming, if he could add lair from the GY or deck, I would say 10/10 but he doesn't do that. When I do summon him he's an upstart or a rota for some dark monsters if I tribute something other than itself. And he can summon diabolos if I tribute another monster I control, but not when tributing a monster my opponent controls. Tributing another monster does not happen often with ahrima but when I do I often search malefic stardust to protect lair. You could search your favourite not yet banned card astrograph from the deck with him. Decent not diabolos targets could be world crown, infernity patriarch, zerato, cusillu, pendragon, radian.. and a couple more.

Duke Shade, king of Umbra.
This card, the way he was intended to work was brilliant. But in reality he's shit. You're supposed to see him as a universal virus target depending on how many tributes you give him. 0-6 ffv, 0-1 ccv, 3 ddv, 4 eev. That all sounds fine, but if you're actually playing the game 3+ tributes is not going to happen to swing the duel in your favour. He's a recycler and win more card for the most part. Usually if you summon him you get to summon diabolos from the grave while adding him to the hand and if you do that diabolos doesn't summon if you chain it wrong :), instead what you can do is play one of the above mentioned ahrima targets and use duke to recycle one of them. Especially duke+radian is a nice combo with lair on the field. You can kajiu your opponent, then use duke to tribute and add the same radian back to the hand for 2+ tokens during your EP.

Lilith, lady of busted card design.
The obvious star of the deck, this card is so good you can run her in any deck that runs 3+ traps and doesn't normal too much. Searches any normal trap, that should say enough. I've seen people play this in their artifact engine to search sanctum. Normal lilith, set scythe. Rip extra deck. But back to the virus deck, she tributes as a cost which is the best kind of monster removal as it does not target or destroy, you can also keep using her if she has her effect negated by tour guide or other effects. You'll want her on the field as long as possible because she wins you the game. Going back to the shitty part of lair of darkness, I play metaverse instead of terraforming so I can get another one up during my opponent's turn and use lilith to deal with a problem card.

Darkest Diabolos, lord of the lair.
He can be played in some other decks, and most people call him the anti kaiju, which is kinda right...but I think he's not all that great. Yes he has 3k atk, yes your opponent can't tribute him, yes he can't be targeted, but that you can't special summon him with his own effect unless the tribute comes from your field is so stupid...konami please? Anyway, his untopdeck effect is fine, if your opponent still has a hand by the time you get him out, he's mostly a beatstick though. He's ok to have, but I'd rather have lilith on the field.

Grave grinning virus.
With this card there's only 1 more "drawback" criteria the virus cards have, that's >1500 def. This one doesn't attack the hand on resolution which makes it useless if you resolve dvd and ddv within 2 turns because those attack all monsters. If you only resolve ccv and ddv then ggv can be used to attack all monsters with >1500 ATK in hand. 3 cards, 3 turns. and fang of critias isn't searchable so it's a little bit more consistent if you open 2 virus cards but the chances of opening lilith, lair/ahrima, diabolos/foolish/d shrine and 2/3 virusses is very slim. Overall it's a nice addition but you'll still need the other virus cards to prevent your opponent from playing yugioh first turn.

Maiden variant, this works decently. You sacrifice your lilith normal summon to get brandish maiden out which tributes itself to get you a token and a link monster, which when destroyed summons maiden again so you can tribute for another link maiden. It's generally stally and it's an ok token generator but normal summoning this if you have lilith in hand is very often not a good option.

Noid variant, if ahrima could recover lair from the grave this variant would be so good, and it is good as long as you can get to lair, tributing their monsters to negate something is really powerful. Problem with how noids work is that they dump cards and it really sucks if your reasoning or monster gate dumps any copies of lair. And it happens often I go through all 3 lairs when I'm not nuking all monsters before the end of the 2nd turn. It adds a lot of early power but if your opponent manages to bite through you're usually not going to be able to recover from it.

Posted Apr 6, 2018, 11:28 PM UTC

3013
imjusthere38•

You should add to Ahrima's description that when he searches Diabolos by tributing one of YOUR dark monsters, Diabolos can trigger to summon itself to the field, just like how Astrograph can trigger its effect when added to hand by Electrum.

Been playing the deck a fair bit online since Lair went up on Percy and it's fun. But I've noticed a lot of people HATE playing against the deck, and really despise how oppressive Lilith and Lair are.

As a fan of the virus cards in general I'm loving the deck. It's made for some very interesting, and definitely some of the longest games I've played in a while. I've tried a few variants of Lilith+Lair, some normal traps, and different engines, but I actually like playing mainly pure, with a ton of traps, 3 terraforming, 3 metaverse, 3 demise and 2-3 nightmare, with the goal of maintaining Lilith and Lair on the field and getting the most effective virus cards onto the field and activating their effects, trying to have full knowledge of my opponents hand every turn while ideally destroying the monsters they draw.

Shoutout to Infernoid variants for being absolutely filthy when they set up and go off.

The deck has a huge reliance on its field spell though. Stopping token generation and stopping your opponent from using your monsters as cost is absolutely necessary to stopping this deck. And a lot of players seem to miss this, instead focusing on removing backrow instead of the field spell and it usually costs them the game.

9
RobertIsCat•

Lilith in Paleo?

6
jhaiam•

I tested it for a few days, I basically just dropped the frogs and put in three lilith, three ahrima, and three lair. You don't get turn one toad, but you can search paleos/ d barrier/torrential. And any tokens from the field that survive let you make a link and then you can still make toads on your second turn.

6
MediyuCrystron - Synchro Master Race!•

but that you can't special summon him with his own effect unless the tribute comes from your field is so stupid

Actually, if it had the effect to special summon itself if a monster on any side of the field is tributed, it might end up being crazy, because it will be a constant 3k beater that summons itself almost all the time, mainly because of how many cards out there that tribute, and with good effects too (Linkuriboh,Ragnarok, Rei, Monarchs, Hell, even the summoning of Supreme King Starve Venom alone triggers it [note how all the examples I listed are DARK, so in this hypothetical scenario, not even Lair will be needed])

I'm using a variant that makes use if Saryuja's summoning and hand-fixing effect to get to any of the 4 main cards (Lair, Ahrima, Lilith and Diabolos) to start applying pressure, using cards like Engage/Hornet, Righty/Lefty and more. And even though this is meant to be a Virus deck, the only virus I play is Eradicator. My main game disruption tool is Ballista Squad, because it doesn't need ATK value fixing, it's not OPT, and it can potentially get rid of 2 cards on their side of the field, or 1 card and resummon Diabolos.

As for Duke and Grinning, you're better off not touching any of them. You can play the former if you're 100% sure you're not gonna be summoning any non-DARK monster, and/or want to make use of monsters that get their/more effects by normal/tribute summoning, like Caius or Crown. Grinning on the other hand is unjustifiable. Sure, you get to destroy any monster they draw and prevent it from floating, but to get to that, you at least have to destroy 4 cards from their deck. And there're many, waaaaaay many, cards in this game that either have a quick or trigger effect that can be used next turn without any problems (Snow, Lefty, Jet, Glow-up, Darkwurm, Destrudo [side note: this is also an Ahrima target for you to make use of], Diabolos, etc).

t;dr: The deck if fine. Using it out of the box or only teching in some cards will not make it really shine, since you either wanna make them techs themselves (just like how the OCG meta is doing with Diabolos in Sentou/Brandish/Sky Striker, and Lair/Ahrima in Noids), or add a whole engine to help them do their control/disruption play.

5
Joseph_gobble•

it makes me sick to my stomach

i'm already sick of seeing kaijus everywhere, this only makes things worse for some decks

5
zerolink16•

thanks for this! learned a lot of things i didn't realize could be done. just recently got back into this game and this will be my personal first new deck :D may i ask why you want Lilith on the field with her effect negated?

edit: also "usually if you summon him you get to summon diabolos from the grave while adding him to the hand and if you do that diabolos doesn't summon if you chain it wrong" how come he doesn't summon if you add him to hand? :o does the graveyard effect stop?

1
MediyuCrystron - Synchro Master Race!•

I believe he meant if he chained the summon effect from the grave to Duke's retrieving effect, since if you retrieved Diabolos itself, since it's not in the graveyard anymore, it won't be summoned. And since the effect is hard once per turn, no more Diabolos(s) will be summoned with this effect this turn.

1
zerolink16•

ah ok, so don't use him to search diabolos unless i have another diabolos in my hand? or will the effect still try to pull from the graveyard first? Think i ran into this on ygo once and couldn't figure out what happened lolol

1
Ctasu30•

Because Lilith can still tribute things (like your opponents monster) it just won't search a trap after

1
zerolink16•

thank you!

2
essemddOPDarkness Hell Armageddon •

If I have a card like tour guide in the hand but not lilith I'll still want to summon lilith with tour guide even though it negates lilith while on the field. It stops the search effect but still let's you tribute monsters as a cost to activate her quick effect which is why lilith is so powerful. Lilith also becomes 2000 instead of 1000 while negated, not that I'd rather have a 2k on board instead of free searching but I'm saying that she's so good that I'd rather have her on the field with her effect negated than not on the field at all.

1
zerolink16•

ohhh ok ok, never thought to try that, just assumed it wouldn't do anything. Thank you!

1
6210classick•

With no monsters left on the field, I summon dark magician"

That reminds of something happened to me today while I was playing AI in Gideon server. I went first and had Dark Magician in hand but when I was thinking about my plays I hovered over DM and it promoted me for a special summon so I did and he attacke for game lol.

0