Questions about power, ascendants, mortals and size advantages?
Hello,
I am currently in the middle of Reaper's Gale, and realised that one aspect is completely unclear and that is how mortal power relates to that of ascendants.
For instance, early on we saw a certain Jhagut (human size) stand up to gigantic dragons with ease.
Later on we also saw a human (Iron Bars) stand up to Tarthenal Ascendants (Midnight Tides) and would probably be able to defeat them 1v1. And we also saw (and I imagine will see) that mortal No 3 Seguleh is close to being able to fight ascendants.
We also saw a fight early on of Anomander vs Demon Lord where they switched to human form at the end of the fight.
So my questions:
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Why are ascendants not able to swat certain mortals if they can fight gigantic creatures? Does skill play such a big role or is there something else?
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Are ascendants who can veer much stronger (on average) and are they stronger in their veered form?
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Why would Anomander/Demon switch back to Tiste Andii form to finish the fight?
Posted Apr 18, 2018, 12:28 PM UTC
In general, power is not only about size and strength and ascension is not only because of strength or skill. When comparing different fights you have to remember if the fight is limited to skill or power.
As to your questions, without spoiling anything I hope:
An ascendant, say Rake, can easily blast your average Joe with magic strength, he would tho be extremely hard pressed against Seguleh Nr. 3 in a purely skill-based fight.
I am less certain here. When veered I'd say they loose some of them selves and the control they then have. Rake's dragon form represents him giving in to Chaos a bit. I might be wrong here.
It's been a while since I read GotM but Rake and Demon were pretty closely matched in veered power and Rake has a special sword he wanted to use (RAFO about that).
As to you examples: Jhagut vs Dragon is a power based fight.
Iron Bars vs Tarthenal Ascendants is partly a skill based fight, there is more to Bars than meets the eye.
So could ascendants, if they wanted to, simply blast mortals off the earth?
Let's say we have Rake vs Seguleh 2/3. I imagine if Rake was hard pressed, it would be entirely because he wanted to be?
Similarly with Iron Bars vs Tarthenal, could Tarthenals use a warren (assuming ascendants have access to one, which I read somewhere is the case) to blast him the fuck out?
Rake could probably wipe the Seguleh off the map if he really wanted to. In levels of just pure swordsmanship, the top Seguleh may overpower him, but he has magic and is a soletaken, among other reasons. The Seguleh are just extremely talented mortals afaik.
The Jaghut are not exactly what I would call mortals, and individually are extremely powerful. A small handful could take on an army.
Iron Bars is also not a mortal. He is an Avowed of the Crimson Guard. I can't remember how much about them you would know at this point, so I won't spoil it, but I'm fairly sure they have explained what the Avowed are.
Ascendants don't necessarily have access to a warren, but most of them tend to be either magic users or one of the elder races, which would have access to warrens.
A small handful of Jaghut IS an army (not really spoilers but.....). Also sort of about the Avowed, ICE's books really explain what they are and why they're special.
Yeah, I know it's more properly covered in the ICE books, but I think they at least gave a general description of the Avowed when you first encounter Iron Bars and his crew.
The Jaghut bit was enough of a spoiler I left it vague, but I don't think it's really that big a deal anyway. I love me some Jaghut humour, and the Jaghut army is amazing.
Not counting the gods/avowed are there any Human ascendants that we know of? I dont mind minor spoilers
The majority of them are probably now soletaken or d'ivers. Dessembrae may count, but that's kind of a unique case.
There are a few proper humans I can think of, but that's a major spoiler. Just RAFO!
Gesler and Stormy become ascendant in Deadhouse Gates. Other instances are RAFO.
The first heros are asendants, Treach, Ryllandaros, Messembre are all ascended.
There are several humans that are "near-ascendants" Most of the old family were, like Urko and Carthenon Crust, Laseen, A few of the High mages were extremely powerful and near ascention, etc.
Ascendents could try. Gods and high mages might have something to say about it.
Any magic user could blast someone if they wanted to. The segulah 3rd talk about confronting Rake, and Lady Envy says "he wont fight you, hell just blast you with magic"
Magic takes time and concentration, part of the skill of the Seguleh 2 or 3rd would be they would know this, and would keep rake too busy to really use magic, when rake when to blast them they would be too athletic and would dodge it.
Iron bars isnt exactly human, and he actually was using that tiara, that gave him super speed, and even with it he was hard pressed. The Tarthenal didnt really have magic warrens they could use offensively, so they couldnt just "blast" him
I see, thanks for the answer.
Just a follow-up on Tarthenal - did they simply not have access to warrens or just offensive one (or is it something that's just never addressed).
I guess my point is - do we know whether or not all ascendants have access to a warren?
Not all ascendants have access to a warren. Pretty much if the person has magic before ascending. Theyll have it after ascending. And magic seems to be the most common way to ascend. Thats why most ascendants have magic.
In regards to Iron Bars, I take it you’ve read “Assail?” When the twist, great unveiling, happens, I couldn’t believe how unobservant I had been throughout the earlier books. In a way, so much made more sense to me, but I’m glad that I hadn’t figured it out beforehand.
He wouldn't be pressed at all in a skill based fight. We saw what happens between him and the most skilled swordsman in the series and hands down rake was better.
Spoilers man, op said he's on reapers gale
I worded it carefully. There are no spoilers.
definitely a spoiler
Not sure if Rake is the most skilled per say...Traveler, Karsa, or Brys Breddict may disagree.
Karsa is a beast but hes a barbarian who knows his limits. It ain't a spoiler to say: when karsa sees the shit going down he basically says fuck that shit, I want nothing to do with it. His greatest strength is his brute force fuck you world attitude but he is also humble in a way when he knows that won't work.
Do we see Brys Beddict again in any meaningful capacity (I don't mind a minor spoiler)? He was so freaking awesome.
Yes, if I remember correctly? Which part are you referring to-that may jog my memory.
Karsa doesn't disagree, Brys is good but I don't think that good.