Source
r/MagicArena•
Killatrap

Is there a counterspell problem in Arena?

general discussion

Hello friends

I recently acquired a key for a good friend of mine who loves card games but only lightly dabbled in Magic.

His new player experience has been pretty overwhelmingly miserable due to what is or (is perceived as) an omnipresence of counterspells.

Do you think the nature of Arena, being an on-demand queueable Bo1 kinda deal, exacerbates the “fun and interactivity” of counter spells when you can theoretically face them game after game? And do you think this can create a really bad experience for new players? Or is a lot of this a victim of the counter heavy Standard right now?

Either way i want to hear what people think about counterspells!

thanks!

Posted May 1, 2018, 6:05 PM UTC

023
Ive_Gone_HollowAngrath Flame Chained•

When rotation happens Essence Scatter, Approach, and the Gods will be gone. These annoying decks will go away and players will find other strong decks to complain about. Such is Magic.

13
KillatrapOPVizier Menagerie•

Very true, but in the meantime, should we be worried about how the game comes off to newer players who aren’t quite convinced on Magic?

0†
Ive_Gone_HollowAngrath Flame Chained•

Control decks and counterspells are part of Magic. Should we be worried if Magic plays like Magic to newer players? Should Magic be changed to something other than Magic to please players who don't like Magic?

17
Ive_Gone_HollowAngrath Flame Chained•

Snark aside, Mark Rosewater wrote an interesting article about the perception difference between getting your card countered versus removed from the board. ETB effects aside, getting your card countered feels worse than getting it removed from the board right when it enters the battlefield, even though it's essentially the same thing. Maybe a helpful planeswalker reading this could link that article.

8
KillatrapOPVizier Menagerie•

I’ll try looking for it and sending it to him, thanks for the heads up!

1
wownoob101Yargle•

Playing around counterspells is the part of Magic, same as playing around removals and board wipe's.

That said the large part of current meta is UW control decks without even one creature, so I can imagine, that for a new player playing againt them could be frustrating.

8
takuru•

How do you play around a counterspell in Magic?

Unless your card can't be countered, your opponent can do as they will with you. Its why I've always despised blue decks. No smart player is going to tap their lands or counter a nonessential card. If a blue player doesn't want you to play a specific card, you aren't playing it. You have to flood more cards than they can counter.

You can't even wait for your opponent to tap their lands now either, with cards like Teferi existing.

2
Psioniczombie•

There's a lot of great advice about dealing with Blue and counter spells in this thread. u/OneArseneWenger makes a good point that the newer player should try blue and figure out how it works from the inside. Personally, I think blue is a great "starter" color, because you can afford to mismanage resources due to card draw. Although that may not be viable for a new player, as they probably dont have the wildcards to spend.

If youre lacking those wildcards, my personal recommendation would be to tell your friend to try out some decks with a bit of black in them. cards like Duress, Doomfall, and Kitesail Freebooter are all low on the rarity list and you get a few copies for free when you start. Even if each card is a 1-of or 2-of in your deck, you'll find blue players much more manageable!

4
Atanar•

Counterspells aren't that bad in my opinion, they just 1-for-1. It's the ridiculous overpowered cards that go with it are annoying, like Scarab God, Approach, Karn, Teferi and Search for Azcanta.

4
jceddyGruul•

Another good way to play around counterspells is to go full low-curve aggro...when they are spending 2-4 mana to counter your 1-2 drops, it really sucks for them.

3
thedudedylanKarn Scion of Urza•

if they are smart they let you drop a couple of those before killing all of them with one card then control you for the rest of the game.

3
taumxd•

The board wipes are pretty lacking in the current Arena. I think the most played is Settle the Wreckage which you can play around by not attacking with all your creatures.

After that you have to branch into red for Sweltering Sun and Hour of Devastation I don’t see those nearly as often.

1
thedudedylanKarn Scion of Urza•

I play back and there are 2 pretty damn good board wipe one has the draw back of locking down my mana but I think in this current meta it's totally worth it to stop many decks completely.

1
Hardknocks286•

To be honest approach is the absolutely most annoying type of control. At least some decks like uw flash run a few counters plus creatures and a variety of stuff were approach is literally 26 land, 2-3 approach and a pile of 40 something counters or answer cards.

3
CScott30•

Non-interactive magic is the best magic. Approach does more than burn ever did at least.

-1
thedudedylanKarn Scion of Urza•

those of us that have been playing magic for a long time know to be suspicious of 2 blue untapped lands.

the truth is that control is always frustrating to new players. they have not yet learned how to anticipate when a counter is coming and how to avoid it.

my suggestion to new players is that they try and play control to learn its weaknesses and counter play.

2
100cupsofcoffee•

Both playing a control deck and playing against a control deck can be very rewarding. Playing around your opponent's counterspells is an important skill to pick up and adds another dimension to play.

That said, you make good point with the best-of-one format; I really hope sideboards become relevant soon in a longer format where I can react to my opponent's deck archetype in games 2 and 3.

2
DLJeff•

Counterspells are a fundamental part of the game, no use crying about it.

2
OneArseneWenger•

He should try playing blue. Its not as easy as he thinks- threat prioritization is harder than people give it credit for. If you two have actual paper cards, you should build two decks out of draft chaffe of equal power level, but one deck be blue with a few counterspells. See if that changes his opinion

1
vaarsuv1us•

let him play 4x duress and include enough instants. Then teach him to sometimes not cast anything in his turn, but cast an instant at the end of the opponents turn, if they counter that, he will have more freedom to cast more in his own next turn.

1
teabag_1337•

I just spam them with Prowling Serpopards and Carnage Tyrants. Especially early Serpopard might be a big problem if u dont have a removal spell.

1
cassis11•

I think there is a counterspell problem. One or two people getting upset would be understandable, but the threads complaining about counterspells are pretty common around here. To me, that indicates it is a problem.

And I don’t think it is helpful to just dismiss these complaints as, “Counterspells are just a part of Magic. Get used to it.”

Yeah, part of the solution is to learn to play against removal heavy decks, but I don’t think it ends there. Land destruction, random discard, and prison strategies used to be a part of magic, too. But WotC has removed or tremendously reduced the power of those types of strategies over the years.

I think it is likewise time to cut down on the number of counterspells that get printed, especially at common and uncommon. They seem to be the last of the most annoying strategies from old Magic and a significant barrier to new players’ enjoyment, as indicated by the frequency of these types of complaints.

I’m ready for your downvotes.

1
KillatrapOPVizier Menagerie•

i appreciate your comment, and i think you’ve got the right idea

2