Is there a specific order you have to follow when using fate artha and call on trait rerolls? Can you explode 6s with fate, then use the call on to reroll all failures (including the additional dice), and then keep exploding 6s? (Seems excessive...)
Posted Jun 5, 2018, 4:53 AM UTC
I don't have the BWG handy, but there's a section at the end of the Fate Artha use part talking about using Fate on abilities that already explode. I'd refer to that part. It doesn't allow for that sort of "continual explosion" you're describing.
I think that in the end it doesn’t make enough difference to worry about. The vast majority of tests don’t benefit much from massive amounts of successes, so the incentive to blow a Call-On on them just isn’t really there. When margin of success does matter, I’m not sure that there’s going to really be a great chance of massively exploding dice pools - in most circumstances, you’re not going to roll enough 6’s to make it a situation worth adding an extra rule to. Also, it doesn’t really affect advancement or epiphany since Call-On’s don’t count for shade-shifting.
I think that it’s a totally reasonable issue to look at, but at the table, it winds up being not a big deal, at least in my experience.
Definitely you can, IMO.
And it doesn't make much difference on average, so allow the awesomeness.
Explode, call-on: expect 3/5 successes per initial die, and 3/5 failures per initial die, and rerolling failures gives 1/2 success per die, so that's (3/5)+(3/5 * 1/2) = 0.9 successes per initial die.
Call-on, explode: expect 3/4 successes per initial die, 1/3 of which will be 6s, and each of those is worth expected 3/5 successes, for 3/4+(3/4 * 1/3 * 3/5) = 0.9 successes per initial die.
Explode, call-on, explode: e=2/6 * (1)+1/6 * (1+e)+3/6 * (3/5); e=24/30+1/6 * e; e=24/30 * 6/5=24/25 = 0.96 successes per initial die.
From the horse's mouth:
If you want to get more out of spending Fate you have to use a Call-on first (to maybe get more sixes to explode). In either case, the failed Fate dice don't get a re-roll. I wouldn't force a Call-on first though, as you might want to save it for another time, just rolling Fate instead. If you risk it and don't commit a Call-on before Fate, your penalty is possibly having less dice to explode.
Short answer: No.
Explanation: The 'failed' re-rolled dice from the 6s you already got do not get re-rolled for using a call-on or deeds point to re-roll all traitors.
This is why it's useful to make a distinction between 'traitors' and 'failed' dice. For example, if you rolled {1 2 4 6 6 6}, then that's four successes to start off with. If those 6s explode let's say you also get another {3 4 6}, for two more successes. And that last 6 explodes again giving a {2}, for no extra successes. This gives a grand total of 6 successes on a B6 (exploding) test, with 2 traitors. Let's say you use a call-on or deeds to re-roll all traitors, then maybe you get {1 6} which explodes to give another {1}. Now your grand total is 7 successes.
The {3} {2} and {1} from the 'failed' exploded dice rolls aren't actually traitors, they're success has already been counted from the {6}s that causes them to explode in the first place.
I hope that makes sense.
Furthermore: You can only spend 1 Fate per roll. If it's already open-ended (such as for Sorcery) then a fate may be used to re-roll a single traitor.
the easy solution to this is to enforce "call-on before fate"