Wy do Christians pretend that God is nice and loving?

Wow, okay. After writing this text I realize its a lot. One of the fundamental problems I believe is that people simply accept what they hear. We hear there is Heaven and Hell, but never actually look it up. You will be surprised by how many people believe things that aren't even mentioned in the bible.

I will go through some of these things and hopefully be able to give you a glance of what I'm studying atm :)

Hey there, these are amazing questions which especially christians should ask. A lot of things dont make sense until you see them culturally and get rid of translation mistakes.

I did not look into this subject deeply yet, I'm just beginning so please take it with a grain of salt and check what I tell you.

God seems super cruel in the old testament. Starting right after He made the old covenant with Moses and the Israelites He punishes them every time they fail.

Simple explanation: They made a covenant. Back then if a covenant was made between 2 Kings their respective gods were obligated to punish them if they broke that covenant.

Now God is was in a position to be the upholder of the covenant AND the punisher god who had to punish when the Israelites failed. I hope I explained this well. As to why a covenant was formed... I believe God wanted something else, not the old covenant. His intention was never 'sin and you will be punished' as you also see explained in the old testament. The laws even were there to guide the Israelites to be loving one another.

The Israelites completely misunderstood the law, Jesus even rebukes them for it and gives a short speech on 'you have heard, but I tell you' and explains Gods heart.

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Now let me kill a huge sacred cow people have. Hell. Where does the bible speak about Hell?

In english and german translations the word Hell is used for a lot of different words. For example Gehenna.

Gehenna was a place where the Israelites burned dead bodies and all sort of trash. A constant fire was burning here. You can even see pictures of the place today and find maps that show Gehenna. It was never Hell as we think of it.

Sheol / Hades. Sheol is the hebrew word, Hades the greek. This never really explains Hell either. Its the place souls seem to go after death (see rich man and poor Lazarus and some other verses)

The parable of the rich man and Lazarus is the only place where pain is mentioned in context of Hades.

Hell as the modern world knows it is never explained in the bible. We have passages like revelation 20 where it talks about a lake of burning sulfur where the devil, the beast and the false prophet will be thrown.

As for people: Revelation 20:13b-15 "each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire."

Fire is often used in the bible to describe cleansing (see 1. Corinthians) and here it also says people will be judged according to their works. It never talks about how people will be tortured.

There is a place 'where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth' as Jesus says it. In context it doesn't make sense that Hell is this place. Also it is never really explained. Rather Jesus keeps talking about how the old covenant and the temple will be destroyed. Those who reject the new covenant - freedom and joy in this life - will be in a place where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Let me compare that to christians whom I truly trust to lean on God. Yes, circumstances may be really bad, but I continuously see how they stay in peace and love. I myself have gone through horrible experiences but am joyful and full of hope and passion for the Lord. When I look into the world I see people complaining, everything is bad and depression creeps in again and again (weeping and gnashing of teeth)

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Concluding what we just looked into: There is no place described in the bible that actually fits our picture of Hell. As I said I'm just now looking into this myself, but it would fit the image of a loving God.

God gave us free will. He didn't want robots but people who choose Him themselves. Adam and Eve failed, sin came into our lives. Sin simply means to fail. God wants us to have a good life here on earth, which He knows is not easy if we stay the way we are.

So God sent His son. Jesus died, we died with Him. We are a new creation, not under sin anymore. God gave us His Spirit after we chose Him, whom now enables us to grow in love and live peaceful lives, even amidst the horrible things that happen in this world. We are supposed to bring love to one another. Of course there are those who misunderstand, those who use this for their own advantage.

Those who do not believe would walk this earth 'dead' because they reject Gods offer to help them, give them peace,...

In the end it says 'every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that He is Lord.' So what? God judges everyone, sends His creation into Hell, gets them out to bow to Him and then sends them back? This contradicts the whole bible and Gods character.

This was a lot, thanks for the read. I hope I could explain my thoughts in a simple way. Keep on searching, its the best thing to find meaning in life. #SpreadLove

This is something that I have struggled with a lot and I will try to explain how I have wrestled with the same questions.

I think the first place to start is creation. God created us to have a loving relationship with Him. The only way this is really possible is if we have a choice in the matter hence free will. If he created us without the possibility of sinning then we are more like robots and our "love" is not actually love. A crude example would be if you asked a girl/guy on a date you would want them to say yes because they actually wanted to go on a date with you, not because they have to. They have the option to say no, if you take that option away then them saying yes loses value.

All relationships have boundaries. When you marry someone, there are certain expectations of that relationship. You expect them to not cheat, lie, etc. When God created us to have a relationship with him there were expectations of that relationship. This is seen in the Law. The Law was given to show us how we have fallen short not as a means by which we can save ourselves.

With our free will we chose to sin which created a rift between us and God. Using the marriage analogy, if your spouse cheated on you and you found out, how would you respond? Would you say hey don't worry about it no big deal, or would you be rightfully angry that she/he went outside the boundaries of your relationship? Would you want him/her to try and be extra good as a way to make up for it? I would say that's not possible. The fact that the relationship was betrayed has to be dealt with. There are basically two options in this situation. You could leave your spouse and end the relationship, or you could work towards reconciliation. If you forgive your spouse and work towards reconciliation then you end up bearing the pain of the forgiveness. If she/he continued to cheat, the more pain it would cause you. You also cant make your spouse stay with you. If they don't want to reconcile the relationship then what can you really do?

This is where the Gospel comes in. A rift was created in our relationship with God and something had to be done about it. God could have said you guys messed up and left us alone or he could have tried to mend the relationship. Note, there is no option where we get to work as hard as we can and be good enough to earn a right standing with God. This is essentially what every other religion outside of Christianity says. If you are good enough and do x, y, and z, you will be accepted into heaven. This is impossible for us to do and leaves a tremendous burden for us to carry. God came into our world (Jesus) to have a relationship with us. Jesus didn't walk around pointing fingers at everyone saying you better clean your act up or you are going to hell. He walked with people and got to know them and ultimately pointed them to himself saying look at the sacrifice I am going to make on your behalf. No amount of works on our behalf would mend our relationship with God so Jesus went to the cross and bore the weight of our sin on himself. That is how we have forgiveness. The price of our sin was paid in the sacrifice he made for us. Now we are free from the punishment of sin to live the life he created for us to live. When you understand sin and the pain God went to forgive our sin it changes the way you see the Law. Its no longer just right and wrong. If you had the opportunity to cheat on your spouse would you say I know this is wrong and I shouldn't do it or would you say no because if you did cheat on them it would tear them apart?

I know these are crude examples and this is a very basic explanation but I think it might help the way you understand Sin, Hell, and Works. Christianity is not about doing the right thing 9/10 times and hoping God will accept us into heaven. We all have to come to grips with our own sin and see how God has loved us even when we wanted nothing to do with him. Hell is a natural outworking of a relationship. If we don't want to have a relationship with God then He is not going to make us go to heaven and spend time with Him when we don't want anything to do with Him. God doesn't want anyone to go to hell. The proof is the cross, He put his own life on the line and suffered infinite pain that we could be reconciled to Him. The fact is that not everyone wants to know him and bring their lives under his authority.

Here are a couple of resources that will explain things better than I ever could.

• The Final Hour - Tim Keller. Probably my favorite sermon ever. https://www.acast.com/timothykellersermonspodcastbygospelinlife/the-final-hour

• A Covenant Relationship - Tim Keller https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xICD5Ycsu04

• The Skeletons in Gods Closet - Joshua Ryan Butler. I have not finished this book but so far it has been really good. https://www.amazon.com/Skeletons-Gods-Closet-Surprise-Judgment/dp/0529100819

Not sure what your religious stance is, hard to tell from your post but it doesn't matter. The important thing to remember is context of the Bible, and logical conclusions we can draw from the passages and context.

I mean am I supposed to be thankful that God is giving me a faint chance at all to not be tortured for eternity?

The Bible doesn't teach eternal torture. Throughout the Bible you will find a consistent view that Hell is a permanent death instead of being ressurected

And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28

Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years. Revelation 20:6

The Bible essentially says we will be judged and those judged will go to a "second death" a permanent separation from God. Not eternal torture with demons and pitch forks.

I guess it sucks for everybody who just happens to not hear your word or wasn't presented the gospel properly.

So Paul explains how this works in Romans. When Paul refers to Gentiles he is referring to all non Jews who have not heard the gospel (or the correct version of the gospel).

For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. Romans 2:14-16

I am not God, and can't say exactly how he will judge, but he will judge everyone based on their actions and thoughts

For God will bring every deed into judgment, with every secret thing, whether good or evil. Ecclesiastes 12:14

God views us as experiments to be played with.

You can take many things away from the story of Job. One of the things to take away is that God is always in control even through difficult times. Another take away is that the story of Job proves free will exists.

And the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?” 9 Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “Does Job fear God for no reason? 10 Have you not put a hedge around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face.” 12 And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand.” So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord. Job 1:8-12

Satan is trying to prove that Job only fears God because God has blessed Job. If free will didn't exist this conversation wouldn't be had.

Thirdly, it is a fact that God knew Adam and Eve would fall.

God didn't know that Adam and Eve would fall. God knew that a possibility was that they would fail.

IMO the only way you can justify God being all knowing, and free will is to have God be similar to a computer programmer. Someone who codes all the various paths, the if statements, the else statements, the various trees. The programmer doesn't know what path the user will make using the program, but knows all the various paths and tree and branches of those statements.

Hey man thanks for sharing! I think there are other people who see things the way you do, so thank you for having the courage to express your opinion. I understand where you are coming from, however I respectfully disagree. If God truly did view us as nothing more than lab rats, then He would just let us go to Hell and be indifferent about. Instead, when we fell he made a way for us to find eternal joy and happiness in Him. Now the way he secured our Salvation shows that He does love us. No one would die for a lab rat, however He humbled himself and became man in order to suffer a brutal humiliating death, so that we may live and be made right with God. I would also like to address the Job comment you made. If God viewed Job as nothing more than a lab rat then he would have never blessed him in such a lavish way afterwards. You don't reward a lab rat in such a way, because the lab rat is nothing more than a means to an end. I just want to conclude by answering the following question. How is God love when He was the one who put the tree in the garden? Love is a choice man. He gave Adam and Eve the choice to love Him or to not. And we have all chosen wrong, but that's why He sent Christ so that we could have eternal life and joy in Him. Thank you if you took the time to read this, and I'll be praying for you dude.

You answered your own question at the very beginning.

“By human standards.”

If you actually had knowledge of everything as God does and if you were actually good morally you would agree with him. It is inconceivable that a sinful, fallen, and ignorant people would call a perfect God bad because of their standards. Btw, God isn’t good or bad, he simply is. He made the moral universe so when you ask if he is good you are attempting to judge him by a standard higher than himself. Our own concept of good is God and there is no higher standard. So if you think God is wrong then you are either morally wrong or you are not capable of understanding. Do you really presume to give council to one that crafted the universe by his command? Who do you think you are to call out God you wicked and small creature? Repent and look at the black pit of sin within yourself before you judge GOD. I’ll end with another question.

Why do you think you are morally good enough and knowledgeable enough to pass judgement on your creator?

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that he gave his only son that who so ever believe in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

God is the perfect example of love. He chose to send his only son for a chance (just a chance, defendant on your choice) to get to spend eternity with him. He did this knowing people would refuse, but his love ran so deep he did it regardless.

Love is impossible if there is no choice, if there is no wrong. If the only choice you have is to be good, or to love, then love doesn’t exist.

I know it’s super easy to think I’m just crazy. I know the Old Testament has some sketchy stuff. To simply respond to that, I would just say a loving father still disciplines their children.

Example: if I only focused on the times my parents spanked me when I was little, I would think they hated me. Maybe you need to shift your thought process to see how much God blesses us everyday, rather than blaming him for the bad stuff happening that is ultimately from our decisions as flawed, flesh driven humans?

Praying for you! I know these thoughts are heavy ones. Let me know if you have more questions :) I don’t have all the answers, but I’d love to try to help!

"The Son of God suffered unto the death, not that men might not suffer, but that their sufferings might be like His." - George MacDonald

“I create evil.” God is all loving, but only to his predestinated elect

This entire post fails to realize one thing: God defined good and evil. You say that this is not love but on what basis? How am I to say what is right and wrong? You can't, you define it for yourself with whatever pleases you at the time. The universe was designed and is the key to pureness which is God.

Christians don’t pretend to be morally superior to the one that created morality. Atheists have no basis or reason for morality and yet they try to judge a God they don’t believe in by the standard that he set.