What would be the point of Bucky or Sam becoming Captain America? The MCU isn’t the comics...

Discussion
  1. Chris Evans is Cap to the General Audience.
  2. Cap’s special abilities are not transferable in the way Tony can make another suit and mentor a bright kid like Shuri or Peter.
  3. There isn’t a monthly comic that needs the “Captain America” title.
  4. The United State’s place in the world has drastically changed in the last twenty years. We aren’t the world’s friendly wealthy uncle that we were perceived to be after WWII. Now we are the bully boys for the world’s wealthy elite to send after each other. In other words, Cap is more political than the MCU wants to be.

Posted Jun 28, 2018, 9:59 AM UTC

415
Turtlenator2049•

I don't think he should be Cap, but if Bucky doesn't take something away from this, then what the actual hell was the point of the last three Captain America movies having such a heavy focus on Bucky?

Steve stormed a Hydra base for Bucky borderline by himself until he freed other prisoners. Fought to bring him back from Hydra's control. Was so adamantent in defending his friend that it was the final straw that caused the collapse of the Avengers.

If Bucky walks away after Avengers 4 with no place to go, or nothing special going on for him and fades into a Rhodey role, then I ask again, what the actual fuck was the point of everything being so Bucky focused?

22
eljay6zeroOP•

I like the idea of Bucky being White Wolf in the BP films better. So far in the MCU Bucky exists primarily to motivate Steve to do something that pushes the edges of his ethics/morals. Bucky has either been a victim or ‘fridged’ as the SJW like to say, to make Steve react. I don’t know why Bucky joined up in WWII, I don’t know if he sees Shuri as a scientist, a savior, a smart kid sister, a Princess, or a potential love interest. I don’t really know what he thinks of Steve, continually saving his butt at the expense of all Steve’s other relationships. I know he’s a good fighter, carries a lot of guilt and would rather feed goats than be super heroic, although he will if the end of the world is at stake. I know he loves Wakanda. He’s never been shown to be a leader or have Steve’s moral center or conviction of purpose. Not seeing it.

And in the MCU what would be the point of Falcon taking the name Captain America?

6
DaveyDDial•
  1. Chris Evans is Cap to the General Audience.

Tobey McGuire was Spider-Man to the General Audience before being replaced twice over. Hugh Jackman is Wolverine to the General Audience now but he won’t be after the buyout. So I don’t see your point.

  1. Cap’s special abilities are not transferable in the way Tony can make another suit and mentor a bright kid like Shuri or Peter.

Won’t help the Sam switch but Bucky is a super soldier already so that’s not a problem for him.

  1. There isn’t a monthly comic that needs the “Captain America” title.

But there are movies that people enjoy and want to see more of.

  1. The United State’s place in the world has drastically changed in the last twenty years. We aren’t the world’s friendly wealthy uncle that we were perceived to be after WWII. Now we are the bully boys for the world’s wealthy elite to send after each other. In other words, Cap is more political than the MCU wants to be.

Cap still represents those better ideals of the bygone age. He brings hope and pride in people for who we were and reminds them who we can still be. If people realise he’s killable than they’ll lose even more hope then they have. My idea is that Bucky takes the mantle to help keep those beliefs of hope up while also being able to make up for his dark history as the Winter Soldier.

12
VRtoons•

Tobey McGuire was Spider-Man to the General Audience before being replaced twice over.

This argument doesn't hold water. Tobey McGuire's "replacement" was another iteration of Peter Parker to another iteration of Peter Parker. You are comparing that to transferring the "Captain America" title to someone in-universe who is not Steve Rogers. If they do this, expect lots of #NotMyCap

Cap still represents those better ideals of the bygone age.

Steve represents those better ideals of the bygone age. Steve is the reason we believe in Cap.

6
Leighgion•

The MCU isn’t the comics, no, but the in-world explanations would apply equally. Captain America is a symbol with value beyond that of exactly who is wielding the shield.

While it’s true that the status of the US has changed drastically, this is actually an argument in favor of having a Captain America. With the country fraying at the seams, a Captain America can be seen as more important than ever.

Honestly, I could go either way far as the MCU goes but I can see the argument for Bucky taking up the shield. His story, while more tragic with that digression into being a Soviet zombie hit man, is also one of courage, sacrifice and honor with rebirth and redemption on top.

7
star_rushBucky•

I 'think' what is going to happen, and this is just a theory on my part (and some other fans) is that Bucky will be the White Wolf for a few movies in order to give the audience time to get used to the idea of Chris Evans being gone and to see Bucky being a full fledged 'good guy' and maybe have some kind of leadership position in Wakanda. We might even see him turn down taking the Shield at least once as he doesn't think he's worthy. Then after some time has passed there will be a need for a Captain America again and it will be Bucky. That way it's not such an abrupt change.

There are reasons we think this. Seb Stan reading up on the BP comics, his doing press with the BP cast, his dialing down BuckyCap at cons and in interviews...that's where this is coming from so we're not making it up out of thin air.

Bucky is already a super soldier. He didn't get the same serum Steve got but whatever Hydra poured into him gave him comparable abilities, and a metal arm which is now vibranium. He could do the job. The question is 'Is he READY to do the job and is the audience ready to accept him?" Later on maybe.

4
eljay6zeroOP•

I agree up to a point. But in the end, why does the MCU need to have a Captain America who isn’t Steve Rogers? Again, no monthly comic with that title and guaranteed sales - why not just have a Falcon movie or a White Wolf movie?

-1
star_rushBucky•

Good questions. I'd watch both.

I don't know anything about any marketing strategy between the comics and the movies (if there is one) so others will have to address that one.

2
GnivriRob•

You are right, Cap’s abilities can not be transferred but Bucky has more or less the same abilities and Sam Wilson’s skilled in many other ways. A whole lot easier to take the mantle of a super soldier than someone like Thor or Hulk who have unique abilities.

There aren’t monthly comics coming out for the MCU, though there are many movies planned for the future. (Slight Maybe Spoiler) When it’s all said and done, Bucky and Sam Wilson may be the closest thing the New Avengers will have to the core group save for maybe Thor. Chris Evans is done being Cap, he’s said it multiple times and someone will have to take up a leadership role in the New Avengers.

There is a point to the perception of the US in the real world. The movie reality is, however, that at the end of the next Avengers it is very likely that the core Original Avengers will be gone. I believe the US and even the world will be looking for a leader in one of the survivors.

That being said, I love the idea of Bucky as Cap or Sam Wilson as Cap though I feel they’ll likely go the way of Bucky.

3
Sentry459Mack•

Chris Evans is Cap to the General Audience.

Even if it didn't make as much as previous movies, it would still make tons because it's Marvel.

Cap’s special abilities are not transferable in the way Tony can make another suit and mentor a bright kid like Shuri or Peter.

Irrelevant since Bucky is enhanced himself and Falcon has his wings.

There isn’t a monthly comic that needs the “Captain America” title.

Ok, and?

3
ItsRainingRupeesThe Wasp•

I think the trickier issue with Bucky is that he’s expressed being tired of fighting and perhaps wanting a chance to live the normal life he never got. So if they bring him back into the fold as the next Captain America will he have the same, “You can’t live without war.” ideals or will he be different? Plus if they gloss over the fact that Bucky, while brainwashed assassinated a lot of people (including Tony’s parents) it would be kinda bad for me at least.

2
stevencarlson84•

It seems like most of your points are a big stretch, and you are flat wrong about Cap’s abilities. Bucky IS a super Soldier in the MCU.

He won’t walk away from A4 with the shield. My guess is he will have an important arc for his development in BP2 that pushes him to the next step.

The idea of Cap wearing the suit again in a new era is addressed in Avengers. When the ideals he stood for seem lost, that’s when he is needed the most. Bucky will not feel he is worthy, but he loved his country in 1942 enough to do what was right just like Steve did, and he will realize what he wants to stand for again by the end of BP2.

2
McSwiggity•

Captain America isnt as much about Steve Rogers as much as a symbol for humanity.

Captain America stopped the nazis Captain America saved New York from an alien invasion Captain America defeated Hydra

He's a hero and an icon. If Steve Rogers does die in the next film they may want someone else to be Captain America to maintain the illusion of the safety that Captain America brings. Who better to wear that mantle than one of the people by his side?

1
eljay6zeroOP•

Captain America led a proto special forces team to stop Hydra (not the Nazis) in WWII, was an almost invisible member of the team in New York (Tony Thor and the Hulk were more in the limelight), was a catalyst for the fall of Hydra but certainly didn’t defeat them single-handedly and is now an international fugitive. In the MCU there is no reason to put a guy in a spangly suit, because even Steve Rogers isn’t Captain America now. Even if Sam or Bucky were to pick up the shield, under what authority would they be working? He would be Bucky with Steve’s shield,given to him by.... a billionaire genius playboy philanthropist.

And in the real world where more than two-thirds of the MCU movie tickets sold are outside the States and the US has a tarnished reputation, there is no point to forcing a character into that role. If Chris Evans is out, I doubt there will be any more Captain America stand alone films, so why confuse the casual viewer with a different face behind the shield in glorified cameos?

1
McSwiggity•

Are we talking for reasons in the MCU universe or ours? I’m talking why they why do it in the MCU.

While Captain America didn’t accomplish all those things himself he the general public still believes it all. They still play videos about him in high school. It’s about perception not reality

1