Source
r/Insurance•
Flyboy142

Just found this sub and I would like an opinion on a car collision that happened 2 years ago.

Hi. I'm not looking for advice exactly, since this is well in the past and I seem to be clear of it, but I would like opinions on how this was done and what might have happened instead.
This is in Canada.

2 years ago I got into a collision in an Enterprise rental car. In summary: I stopped at the top of a ramp leading to trans-canada highway exchange bridge by a construction flagwoman. when she gave me the "slow" signal I proceeded past her and got immediately backed into by a road paving vehicle. The guy in the vehicle knew he fucked up, apologizing profusely and swearing at himself and stuff, thought he was going to get fired.

With the guy admitting fault so clearly, this should have been a simple case. The problem is, I'm an idiot. My phone was dead and I assumed the work supervisor wouldn't let me use his, so I didn't ask, so therefore the RCMP (this was a rural area in Saskatchewan) wasn't called and he took all the statements and pictures. I also assumed they wouldn't come since they taught me in school that you shouldn't call if the damage is obviously under $2000 (and it wasn't, literally just a paint job).

So naturally Enterprise came after me for the damage afterwards. Of course they decided to replace the entire door, tire lip, and the wheel for over $3000 damage simply because they knew they could fuck me/intimidate me into paying them out. Luckily my broker informed me that despite having liability-only coverage, it is "transferable coverage" to the rental car and my insurance would cover it entirely.

Here's where it gets sketchy.

A claims person from my insurance company e-mailed me asking for details about the collision (even though all parties had my statement) and said they were pursuing a no-fault resolution. I gave it to her, then she literally gave me the e-mail of the construction company's insurance and told me to talk everything out with them. In other words, the insurance company that I pay almost $2000/year for minimum coverage (liability only, with no moving traffic violations history and I did driving school) just told me to do their job for them. Holy shit. What resulted afterwards, naturally, was an increasingly hostile e-mail back and forth between myself and the other party's insurance rep/lawyer (I honestly don't know who they were exactly), with my own insurance CC'd and not saying anything, where they naturally made shit up about the incident that never happened because well, all my statements were given to them, so of course they did.
Oh, and the claim lady from my insurance asked me to drive out to the site with her supervisor and tell him what happened. The site being an over 5 hour drive from where I live. lolfuckthat
What happened next? Uh...nothing, actually. As in, suddenly, the other party stopped replying to me, the claims girl for my own insurance didn't say anything, and neither did my broker.

I get my bill for next year's insurance several months later (I pay it annually all at once) and it hasn't gone up a dime, so I assume that means I wasn't found at fault? Even so, shouldn't I have been told something?

Anyway, naturally, I want a new insurance company (and a new broker too, he's simply an idiot, for many reasons other than this incident), but I don't know where to start since this was all set up for me by my dad 6 years ago.

Posted Jul 30, 2018, 8:37 AM UTC · edited

631
ThePaleRunnerClaims Adjuster•

They probably did not find you at fault so that would explain why your rates didn’t go up. But the most important part about this is that your rental car is not covered under liability... it’s only covered under collision. Your coverage most likely applies but in this case would only cover damage to their vehicle if you were deemed at fault.

I’m very surprised the rental company let you rent one of their cars without the damage waiver or proof of collision coverage.

And it’s not our job to negotiate with the claimant carrier for you. Our job is to investigate our own claim that you open with us. Most of us have tons of claims to work at once and don’t care to argue liability with another carrier when it’s not going to change anyone’s mind regardless.

11
AQuantumEvent•

Is this true of Canada? I know that it is true in several US states, but others, such as NY, pay rental out under the PD (liability) portion of a policy.

2
Phil_Achio•

It is not correct in canada for most provinces, cant speak for manitoba and saskatchewan. But there is an endorsement for liability to non-owned vehicles. It is a liability coverage.

2
ThePaleRunnerClaims Adjuster•

Honestly I’m not sure. I guess we would have to read the specific policy language he has to be sure. I just know that most states do it that way and most of Canada’s car insurance is similar to the us. I guess that is a possibility though.

1
herp___•

I hate the ‘not my job’ mentality.

-1
ThePaleRunnerClaims Adjuster•

That’s not what this is about at all. I can’t give a statement for our driver. I can’t clarify any injuries for our driver. I don’t have the ability or time to communicate this to the claimant carrier. I go above and beyond for people all of the time including working some of my coworkers claims when I have downtime... but I can’t do that.

6
herp___•

That’s fine and I understand you can only do so much but I’ve found the when folks have the attitude of it’s not my job then it becomes toxic. Just my 2 cents.

2
Flyboy142OP•

I’m very surprised the rental company let you rent one of their cars without the damage waiver or proof of collision coverage.

Damage waiver for what? I don't really understand. I don't really have any rights if I damage their vehicle, whether I'm at fault or not.

Either way, they never asked me anything about my insurance. I'm sure the waiver you mentioned was in the rental paperwork since the only info Enterprise had on me was my name and credit card info.

And it’s not our job to negotiate with the claimant carrier for you.

Any lawyer will tell you to cease all communication with someone threatening to sue and that all communication is supposed to go through legal professionals. Insurance is supposed to represent you in legal arrangements, or find you representation. I provide them all I know what happened, but it's ridiculous to expect me to argue with the other party with education specialized in legalese and The System without any kind of counsel or professional advice whatsoever.

-4
swoleopComplex BI Adjuster•

Your insurance is there to serve 2 purposes:

  1. To repair your vehicle through 1st party coverage, if you purchase that coverage.

  2. To defend/attempt to settle actions against you, presented by another party.

Your insurance does not legally represent you and has no obligation to help you present/negotiate a claim with another company.

3
Flyboy142OP•

To defend/attempt to settle actions against you, presented by another party.

TIL that a lawyer literally arguing with me over a potential lawsuit without counsel isn't an action against me.

-1
Appygirl58•

You're putting a lot of blame on people who are just doing their job, not trying to screw you over. Enterprise has no benefit in paying a shop $1,000 more than what you THINK the damages should cost to repair. They aren't interested in screwing you over just because they can. You're liability would cover damages to the truck if there was any. If you didn't purchase collision coverage for the rental then that's totally on you. The other insursnce simply wanted a statement from you for investigative purposes. Your insurance can't do everything for you. Honestly, I think an adjuster could've put a small portion of liability on you, so you're golden.

6
Flyboy142OP•

You're putting a lot of blame on people who are just doing their job, not trying to screw you over.

Heh, I took the invoice to multiple mechanics I know and they all agreed it just stunk of unnecessary work. If you knew Enterprise you'd know their reputation; these guys get off on screwing people by intimidating them with their scary corporate lawyers and collection agencies. I wasn't going to buy any of that for a second. Unfortunately they were the only option available to me at the time.

Enterprise has no benefit in paying a shop $1,000 more than what you THINK the damages should cost to repair.

They get a car that's in even better condition than before it was damaged for free. Of course they have benefit to screw me.

If you didn't purchase collision coverage for the rental then that's totally on you

The collision coverage wouldn't have covered what happened anyway. The clerk at Enterprise confirmed this as well as the paperwork when I doublechecked. It was basically just for windshield, grill and heavy wear&tear.

The other insursnce simply wanted a statement from you for investigative purposes

Like i said, all parties already had my statements. I gave a statement to the construction company onsite and to enterprise and my own insurance the same day. and no, if that's all they wanted, they wouldn't have literally told me to fend for myself against the extremely hostile and unreasonable other party essentially without representation.

-8
Overladen_Prince•

You are a textbook example of someone who is completely oblivious. All parties did not have your statement. You said you gave your statement to the construction company and to your insurance company, not the construction companies insurance. Your insurance company cannot make a statement on your behalf because guess what....they weren't there, and by not calling their insurance company you dragged out the investigation on their end. Your insurance company did not "make you fend for yourself" they simply asked you to provide a statement and it is standard procedure for literally every insurance company. Stop setting unreasonable expectations because you don't understand the process.

9
Flyboy142OP•

Your insurance company did not "make you fend for yourself" they simply asked you to provide a statement and it is standard procedure for literally every insurance company.

If you actually read my post, you would know:

she literally gave me the e-mail of the construction company's insurance and told me to talk everything out with them.

0
Sadiemae1750•

Yes. That’s what you do when filing a claim with another carrier. What was your carrier supposed to do? Everyone has explained they can’t give your statement on your behalf. This doesn’t happen.

3
Overladen_Prince•

My point still stands. If I am your adjuster j cannot speak on your behalf. It was your property, you were there, you saw what happened, not your insurance company.

1
Appygirl58•

I'm sorry but that chip on your shoulder is just so wrong

8
Flyboy142OP•

I mean if you're just going to one-line me for karma instead of properly retorting then have fun with your fake internet points. Looks like you have your own chips to worry about if that's your priority on such a remote subreddit.

0
Sadiemae1750•

What representation are you thinking your insurance company should provide for you? Someone to give a statement for you? Because that doesn’t happen. Ever.

2
rdselle•

Are you a professional body shop technician or auto insurance adjuster? I had a claim this year when a truck backed into my vehicle. On the surface it looked like a scratched hood and broken grill. It ended up being over $5000 to replace the hood, grill, paint the front bumper, and replace a headlight because of internal damage that was not immediately obvious from a quick visual inspection. $3000 sounds like a steal, and yes it's 100% plausible that those new parts were needed.

4
ThePaleRunnerClaims Adjuster•

Yea you have to remember that enterprise tends to sell their cars after a couple years too... so they’re going to make damn sure the repairs look great.

3
Flyboy142OP•

Are you a professional body shop technician or auto insurance adjuster?

Several people I took the invoice work (which included a work receipt from the bodyshop, with pictures, a police damage tag, and detailed, itemized list of every repair done including work manhours required) are, and they confirmed that it was totally unnecessary work for what was literally just a paint-job.

1
meansteen•

I had a number of not at fault and at fault claims with my last company and my premium never went up at renewal. To be sure, you can usually find this info buried in your online account. In the US they have some type of rating system I think from 1-5 or something. If they’re counting a claim against you, you’ll know by the wording. It’s good to know where you stand in case you ever want to shop around (and for what you’re paying, you might want to). I shop around every few years to make sure I’m not paying any more than I should.

As far as the rest of your post, maybe I misread, but I find it strange your adjuster had you do the work if they were trying to avoid paying. In my vast history of dealing with them, I’ve always found they’ll go above and beyond to avoid paying when they think their client isn’t at fault. I’ve also always been advised not to speak to the other side once the claim has been opened. But based on the comments here, maybe I’ve just been “lucky.”

I’ll close by saying that one thing I’ve learned the hard way is to NEVER move my car and ALWAYS call the cops or at least take photos. The last couple of times I’ve been in fender benders, I didn’t even get out of my car. I don’t speak to the other driver other than to say we can call the police and exchange info when they arrive. I’ve been burned one too many times by drivers who apologize and accept fault on the scene and later sing a completely different tune to insurance to dodge responsibility. I’ve also invested in a cheap dash cam, which gives me peace of mind.

2
Flyboy142OP•

As far as the rest of your post, maybe I misread, but I find it strange your adjuster had you do the work if they were trying to avoid paying. In my vast history of dealing with them, I’ve always found they’ll go above and beyond to avoid paying when they think their client isn’t at fault. I’ve also always been advised not to speak to the other side once the claim has been opened. But based on the comments here, maybe I’ve just been “lucky.”

This is why it's so bewildering to me. Everyone I've talked to about this said I should get a different insurance company immediately because that is not okay or normal at all.

I’ll close by saying that one thing I’ve learned the hard way is to NEVER move my car and ALWAYS call the cops or at least take photos. The last couple of times I’ve been in fender benders, I didn’t even get out of my car. I don’t speak to the other driver other than to say we can call the police and exchange info when they arrive. I’ve been burned one too many times by drivers who apologize and accept fault on the scene and later sing a completely different tune to insurance to dodge responsibility.

Which is why I'm beginning to regret listening to everything the teachers said in high school and driving school. Apparently you're not supposed to call the cops for cheap fender benders or paintjobs like this, but now I'm supposed to? I'm so confused, and i was a the time of the crash, so I decided to just eat the potential claim instead of going to jail for making frivolous 911 calls.

0
meansteen•

Never hurts to check competitors’ quotes. But it’s also possible you just had a lame adjuster...keep the faith, it will probably go in your favor.

I went to private school, so no driver’s ed for me! I also have learned through 5 German cars that what appears to my untrained eye to be minor damage is quite possibly not at all minor. Then there’s the case of cheap plastic bumpers that when cracked must be totally replaced. I’m not taking my chances at a loss in the claims process because some cop would rather be doing something else. Only exception is in bad neighborhoods. Cops won’t even come, so I’ve twice dragged myself to the station to report the accident during daylight hours. Honestly after dealing with two really unsavory types in one year, I just stay in my car and play the “I didn’t feel safe to get out and assess the damage by myself, officer,” card. I watch way too much ID channel to end up tied up in some lunatic’s trunk never to be seen or heard from again.

Edit: I never call 911 (except the time I got stuck in a flash flood) because I’ve thankfully never been seriously hurt. Just the precinct direct line. They’re nicer about it that way.

0
Flyboy142OP•

I never call 911 (except the time I got stuck in a flash flood) because I’ve thankfully never been seriously hurt. Just the precinct direct line. They’re nicer about it that way.

I never thought about that. I'll add my local districts to speed dial.

1
bananagaming•

I would start by asking for a letter of experience for that policy. This comes directly from the company and it will show your losses, which driver was involved, possibly the payout, and the percentage of fault. Then just google local brokers or direct writers in your province.

1