Theory-crafting builds for solo high-level Delves

Discussion

How to deal damage

  • Abilities based on % of monster life. Infernal Blow, Profane Bloom, and various corpse explosion skills.
  • Assasin Poison duration. Can destroy any number of HP, if you find a way to survive.
  • Indigon Hierophant/Inquisitor/Trickster. The issue is survivability.
  • Traps, specifically: Explosive, Lightning Spire, Flamethrower, Arc, Fire. If Sabo and one of those will not be nerfed.
  • Blade Vortex and Elemental Hit, will likely be nerfed.
  • Vaal Double Strike and Blade Flurry, for melee builds.

How to gain life

  • Pathfinder 100% resist and Zerphi's flask uptime. I hope they nerf/rework it, but if they will not - it is the top build for sure.
  • Slayer leech. Combined with % life recovery rate on belt, elder amulet, Arakaali pantheon, and obviously Vaal Pact. Will likely be on top of the ladder, especially on SSF.
  • Occulstist ES recharge combined with "Faster start of recharge" mod on various items. Add on top Malediction (nearby enemies deal 10% less damage), curse effectiveness, and Profane Bloom. Xirgil's Crank could even appear in meta.
  • Life on hit molten strike. Two Elder rings and Watcher's Eye will give up to 70 life on hit.
  • Regen juggernaut. I don't think RF version will have enough damage, but Double Strike might, who knows tho...
  • Block Necro with spectres. The Red Nightmare, Shaper shield with 5% Life/ES on block and X% of block applied to spells.
  • Block Gladiator with life on block and bleed explosions.
  • Bloodseeker instant leech claw.

How to weaken enemies

  • Freeze and Stun. Likely, will not be effective as minimum threshold will be too high. With an exception of Vaal Ground Slam.
  • Temp Chains and Enfeeble. Should be highly valuable, especially when combined with aura effectiveness and Enhance support gem.
  • Chill. Requires a cold damage hit of 0.33% of enemy life, which should be reachable. CWDT -> Cold Snap for chilled ground could be nice alternative for builds that do not deal cold damage.

How to increase effective life pool

  • Fortify - must be used by every build that can fit it in.
  • Max res - Loreweave, Purity auras, Saffell's.
  • X damage taken as X - Lightning Coil, Incandescent Heart. Watcher's Eye.

Damage or survivability?

Assuming mobs have no regen, survivability should be significantly more important even on Softcore. I don't think that it will be possible to kill mobs before they reach you in a tight area.


Share your thoughts too. Ofc, all this might change after the patch notes, but still... Any ex-d3 players, what is strong in rifts?

Posted Aug 16, 2018, 9:42 AM UTC

1872
derennelJuggernaut•

So, scourge/bloodseeker dom blow/blade flurry + spectres necro/glad ascendant, max block with bone offering, haemophilia for %based bloodsplosions, stacking minion damage to scale everything including the explosions, and using a loreweave it is.

13
FORTNlT3•

Meh that 5% of haemophili won't be very good if you already remember how hard some bestiary rares were ;D

If you add a regen and leech mods on a high numer of hp monster he is just unkillable.

2
KarvarouskuGamingTwitch.tv/Karvarousku•

There's no way GGG won't see the issues with monster life % scaling setups, and will hopefully fix that by using scaling like monsters take %less/reduced damage instead of just adding more life.

And we already know (Ziggy mentioned it in Ziz's stream) that monster level is capped, as it would make Spectre scaling too absurd.

10
Carnines•

It isn't that OP because it doesn't mean jack when enemies don't stand on top of eachother, bosses exist, and you have to be able to kill one mob to be effective.

5
teddmagwellOP:thinking:•

The solution for "monster life % scaling" setups is mini-bosses that will have few nearby mobs. The current situation is the same - you can't kill bosses with Inpulsa.

And desecrate will summon regular corpses with a standard life.

1
bakkerboy465Standard•

I'm definitely going to be waiting on the patch notes and actual experience in the delve before trusting what ziggy said.

Given the official FAQ references spectre and their scaling of "high level spectres in the mine"

I would expect some sort of scaling of spectres in the mine outside of just level if not

-1
geraldsummersElementalist•

Complete immunity detonate dead poets pen pathfinder. 100% all res 100% phys taken as ele/ic and CI. Look up Shinra's RF build if you wan't info on how to get complete immunity.

8
findar•

Poet Pen Hiero will push far too.

2
Trevelina•

Shinra's build requires you to use saffel 's to get 100% elemental res, so you can dual wield poet's pen, but perhaps you can have both desecrate and detonate dead in one wand and deal enough dmg?

1
geraldsummersElementalist•

You probably don't need complete immunity. I'd rather have some HP and regen for the darkness. So yeah, might drop saffels for a PP if the build is already tanky enough, but we'll see.

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

0
CptFoo•

darkness is not phys it's "life degen" iirc. nothing except "reduce all dmg" can reduce it.

8
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
SamulatorElementalist•

Read the FAQ, answered under the "What kind of damage is the darkness? How does it stack?" question.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2197540

10
TarmaqueBeyond•

I don't have the source on hand, but GGG said the darkness is its own damage type

2
BucketBrigade•

The darkness degen can kill you, but phys degen is countered by perma IC.

7
TroopeerJuggernaut•

I think we're gonna see some super tanky builds being theorycrafted, since there is no time limit, you can take your time killing stuff, much like when Atziri first came out, people on Hardcore did the most tanky builds they could think of. On second thought, damage might actually be needed so you wont get overrun by monsters, and that's where %max health explosions come in handy, but we'll have to wait and see.

7
KarvarouskuGamingTwitch.tv/Karvarousku•

since there is no time limit, you can take your time killing stuff

The crawler needs fuel to keep it's light on, so there is definitely a certain dps threshold that you need to reach. Assuming you need to kill the monsters guarding the checkpoint before you actually get the checkpoint. Don't see why that wouldn't be that case though.

8
TroopeerJuggernaut•

Thinking about the fights when it does reach a checkpoint, where you get your rewards? there shouldnt be a time limit there, when pushing the cart you just have to keep up with it, and then the monsters would just stack up on you if you don't get enough DPS to kill them fast enough.

1
KarvarouskuGamingTwitch.tv/Karvarousku•

Your rewards are the off-road chests that you went while the crawler was moving towards a checkpoint, the gear the mobs you kill drop and the achievement of obtaining the next checkpoint.

If there is no pen on monsters, you can build characters that are literally immune to all damage, and you'd just follow the crawler to the checkpoint. There has to be some killing before the checkpoint is reached in that case. And if there is no time limit, you'd just stand there for hours until you finally finish the packs before checkpoint.

8
firedancer13•

I imagine Nullifier will show up now and again down there in order to make the pathfinders lives more difficult

4
binotheclown•

The cart gets EMP'd on occasion, right? You're bound to eat some darkness damage, and as far as I'm aware, the builds that are immune to damage don't actually have a ton of EHP.

3
TroopeerJuggernaut•

I suppose, I thought that when the cart was done moving it'll drop you some shineys, besides the "side areas", So what you're saying is the crawlers fuel is slowly draining despite not moving, to give it some sort of timed run? if it doesnt then you could take all the time in world, which would be problematic since Pathfinders can become immune to damage completly.

1
Bob9010•

Any monster with life regen will be unkillable. I faced this issue with my old Mjolnir character. I could face tank slams all day, but I couldn't kill wasteland Voll because of the consecrated ground.

3
Duodecimus•

Bring the skill that disables target's regen. Frost bomb, I think?

2
Bob9010•

At the time, Frost Bomb didn't exist. It's also -75% to regen, it doesn't fully disable it. But yes, now it is an option. One that is often forgotten about, like when I wrote my OP.

1
redrach•

%HP based abilities will be as strong as they are now if GGG chooses to scale monsters in other ways than just giving them more HP (like giving them %reduced damage taken, or maybe block/dodge etc.)

5
teddmagwellOP:thinking:•

Block Chance Reduction Support meta lul.

8
loldan79Aztiri•

People are underrating the good old RF Jugg. You can almost reasonably have permanent up time on immortal call and you can get 10k hp with 84/84/79 resists (2 lvl 23 purities + saffels). DPS is about 500k on average but then tripled to 1.5M for ~6-7seconds when you activate vaal RF.

I think by the time you get to a floor where rf jugg actually starts taking dangerous damage the monster hp is going to be so high that other less tanky but higher dps builds won't be killing monsters before getting hit, and when they get hit they'll be getting one shot guaranteed.

5
JackalopeeAtziri•

Two underused skills in the current game might see some play, frostwall+phase run can keep monsters away from you and reduce the range you are spotted at by 80%

combo this with something like an elementalist golemancer where you have a bunch of 20k+ health golems that are immune to elemental damage and you can be effectively invisible/unreachable

and when the golems start getting dying too quickly you can always put on minion instability to make em pop

it might be a cheesy way to push some deeper delves

also for % life damage you can use abyssal cry, but the taunt aspect might get you killed

5
MyNameIsSalo•

Pathfinder poets pens

Romiras + volls devotion + immortal call in your unearth - Gmp pen. 100% uptime when you get a 4th charge. Ideally +1 res volls devotion too.

And then there's two setups, the most optimal depends on how relevant chaos damage is

  1. Chaos damage hardly exists in delves
  • go life based, use RF to degen your mana pool to 0, use zerphis flask and divine distille (yes they both work at once), put frenzy on blood magic as your mana is 0, use 3 resist flasks. You can achieve 94% ish resists without purities. With permanent immortal call. You can reserve the majority of your mana pool meaning you can fit in triple purities too. Upside is that nothing can kill you, except chaos damage. Downside is that chaos damage does exist, meaning you need to stack some life and can't completely ignore all life on tree.
  1. Chaos resist is relevant

CI, perma IC through same method, use indigion to drain mana to sustain your diviniate distille. Unfortunately can not run purities on this setup so you're going to be at 94% ish resists. Meaning you need to stack some ES, can't completely negate it. But immune to chaos, phys and 94% resists and probably wise oak + pathfinder take 8% less ele damage.

So unfortunately both setups require you to invest into either life or ES on the tree, limiting your total dps. If you had a triple purity mana guardian support for the CI version, then you could have actual full damage immunity. You won't need to take any life or ES on the tree whatsoever and stack full damage. The downside is that you now have a support character that isn't full damage immune and may die. Though you can build most of the same defences on a guardian and get nearly damage immune.

A duo like this will push the furtherest I think. It'll go as far as you can push the guardian before he gets one shot with 95% resists instead of 100%.

Also this assumes there is no resist penetration. If mobs penetrate resist, this fucks over the whole strategy

4
teddmagwellOP:thinking:•

That is true. But, GGG hinted multiple times Pathfinder rework. We'll see if only poison part will be reworked, or permanent flasks too.

1
MyNameIsSalo•

Well obviously I expect them to remove the ability for us to get full damage immunity, would completely break delves. There's no point theorucrafting at all until path notes come out.

But I'm doing it anyway just to see how reasonably far we can push existing builds

1
ManWith-Hat•

Temp Chains and Enfeeble. Should be highly valuable, especially when combined with aura effectiveness and Enhance support gem.

Shouldn't that be curse effectiveness?

4
HTS-got-Damascus•

I doubt it'll be as hard as people here imagine it to be. It'll probably just be more of one shot extravaganza where you kill monsters quickly enough or they'll kill you.

4
plutonen•

I think so too

1
FORTNlT3•
  • Vaal Double Strike and Blade Flurry, for melee builds.

This one sounds like a suecide later on if they scale delve by adding damage and hp to monsters melee range will sucks much. And that lightning mirrage mod..... FFS who even design that.

3
redrach•

Depending on how monster HP scales every build might have to play as melee, with tanky monsters swarming the player and filling the entire zone around the crawler with nowhere to kite safely.

2
VladThePoloniumer•

They already stated that they're reworking pathfinder. If 100% resists with 100% uptime still works, then "daaaaamn".

To be perfectly honest, 100% resist pathfinder will probably be the best for reaching new depths by following the cart, but will probably be absolute trash for farming side paths due to darkness. Even with the high movement speed.

2
victo0•

I will go for some chieftain blade vortex with some CwDT and the razor of seven suns, can get over 100% life regen per second, deal 3 million shaper dps and have ton of defense. Plus you can use that essence to get the fire explosion on kill that scale with enemy life.

2
Calabast•

Once you get deep enough that even an enemy sneeze is a one-shot, switch to using a basalt flask and Bramble jack for 60% reflect melee phys, unequip everything else, pop immortal call and charge the enemies. Their hits do near-infinite damage to your soft naked body, you reflect 60% * infinity back (check my math there), and immortal call keeps you alive.

What's that you say? This plan can never actually work? Pish posh, then why are these beers telling me it's such a great idea?

2
4percent4•

Arc will be nerfed before BV. Idk how they plan on nerfing EH w/o just completely making the light/cold versions unplayable (ppl play them i think?).

Heirophant has loads of survability with Perm immortal call 5% reduce ele damage taken and 40%+ MoM (easy to get 60%). Relatively easy to get a WLM oh ring for leech. Could go crit for more damage. Essence craft ammy for % chance to gain 10% mana on skill. This can be done with any ascendancy with Indigon.

Personally I think totem's will be in a good spot since you'll be trying to maneuver in the corridor with a pair of elder gloves with global blind. Attack based totems are even better with Blind and taunt coming from abyss jewels. Possible option for chief-slayer ascendant with 3 totems for leech. Troll timber is enough for spell based totems.

Personally I think the only builds going super deep are crit based builds. Even with indigon you might as well go crit since it's easy.

If EH isn't gutted I'll be going Crit EH totems. If it's dead then probably either a Crit indigon build or a Reave/BF ascendant.

1
firedancer13•

IMHO totems are going to be super fragile

5
4percent4•

The main reason people have issue's with totems is that they get over whelmed and don't invest 2 nodes into totem resistances. Bringing them from 40 AR to 75. That's 42% less damage taken. If you're playing with an aura bot they also benefit from the max resists.

One of the issue's I have when I'm playing with an aura bot with an attack based build is not being able to leech mana as fast as I spend it. The only way I can keep up is if I have a theifs torment for mana on hit.

1
teddmagwellOP:thinking:•

Oh, indeed, I forgot about perma immortal call. There are also interesting Watcher's Eye with "20% damage taken gained as mana" and Rallying Cry threshold jewel (10%).

Warchief might be buffed also...

1
4percent4•

Warchief's main issue, is the delay of it popping up and then attacking. It's a "arming" time that no other totem has and it's hilariously bad.

Besides why use a terrible melee weapon when you can just use chin sol and PB with RaT?

While the watcher's eye is okay you've better off with the recovery rate, % chance to get 10% mana, or the 10% extra MoM.

2
EclaireurMiner Lantern•

Yeah I played warchief totems back in breach and they would just get overrun before they started attacking in dense breaches. Doubt they would work well here.

2
4percent4•

Depending on if they remove the "arming time" on them they could be good. If not there's no reason to chose them over any other totem for that one reason.

1
SharveOccultist•

just remove the conversion shenanigans from EH by picking 1 element and only apply that damage type on the hit

1
4percent4•

You mean the way it was originally intended to function? With 80% more damage and 188% damage effectiveness? I'm down.

1
SharveOccultist•

yep

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
9hp71nOccultist•

I would say with decent gear Indigon ED could cover both damage and survivability. At least if you can get ED to 800k tooltip you will get 4k life regen per mob and MoM.

1
PenguinForTheWinCockareel•

I got ED to 140k with 21/20 gems in a +1 tabula and a lvl 3 empower as a Trickster with all charges up, how the hell do you get 800k (essence drain right ?)

3
9hp71nOccultist•

By getting Indigon buff as high as possible like in this guide, need a lot of mana recovery and regen items thought still possible.

2
PenguinForTheWinCockareel•

I'll check that out, thanks. But jesus that sounds broken. Felt like i almost peaked in damage (no emp 4), boy was i wrong

1
firedancer13•

It’s ok but the ramp up time is painful and not to be ignored. I had more fun with “only” 100k DPS that was always there for me

2
JorjUltra#BallLightning2k18•

Indigon lmao

1
Bikalo20c•

I feel like eventually no matter how tanky short ranged builds like BV etc. will just get oneshot and the only way to survive is gonna be being ranged.

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
ultrahiangle•

im pretty sure you will never have to go into the darkness unless you are playing risky. you will use flares whenever you go into a dark area.

1
einea5mk•

EQ, worm flask, slayer overleech, feelsgoodman

1