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r/Pathfinder_RPG•
LordeTech

Antagonists for an Evil Aligned Game

1E GM Talk

Hello everyone, I'm writing another gestalt one shot (The Leviathan: Journey to the First World was my first foray for those interested) and this time I'm trying to create a campaign for evil/chaotically inclined player characters.

My issue right now is writing a compelling antagonist that an evil/chaotically inclined group would want to bother with. Right now the onset of the game will have the players "wake up" in a mass grave, and from there I need some kind of background/story to give them a reason to want revenge / do a thing beyond burning down the town. Some kind of constructive activity or goal. Just having a smidge of trouble with all this.

For more info, as responding to u/Braimos

The intention of this one shot is a "true" evil game. Antipaladins, death magic, thievery, what have you. Setting is going to be a riff on that one movie Wild Wild West with Will Smith, so think "gentle steampunk in the wild west".

Starting in a mass grave and left for dead gives a decent motive for revenge, or some other ideas floating around are a train robbery, or what have you, but it still feels like I need an underlying story to drag it all together. Maybe something about the town, maybe the Sheriff is an overzealous lawbringer (and push for CN/CE/NE players), maybe steal a bit of literature from Way of the Wicked and have a deity set up shop there and go too far.

So fellow GMs and writers of Reddit, how do you make compelling Good/Lawful aligned Antagonists? What sorts of things would an Evil/Chaotic party want to do and have fun doing that goes beyond premium murderhoboing?

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EDIT: I've gotten a lot of good feedback. Right now I'm looking at:

Lawful Evil but leaning Lawful subsection of Hell -- Kind of like a City of Deals and Contracts but Vegasey Players broke a contract of some kind, buried alive on the outskirts

Push them for revenge, dismantling the order of the town and nearby area, robbing something important to the city, or playing them at their own game (setting up and navigating contracts that create a "dominoes fall in place" type scenario). Give them a common hatred and goal and see how they choose to go about it.

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Posted Aug 28, 2018, 7:34 PM UTC · edited

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jund23•

How about Inevitables playing a big part?

They are steampunk, which fits. Also they are purely Lawful, as opposed to good. I think this makes for a change from smite good all day every day. It might be interesting

If nothing else some enemy spellcaster could bind one or two to help them kill the party

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LordeTechOP•

Might be a good tool for goons, just give em a handful of class levels somewhere on a CR 6-8 inevitable or something, maybe they're bound to the town for some reason.

1
jund23•

I was thinking more of this sweet ball of steampunk as a guardian helping your good npcs stop your players.

Maybe your players end goal involves combining two elemental planes together in some First World crazy Fey shenanigans. This makes the Inevitables annoyed enough to intervene or lend help, sort of thing

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LordeTechOP•

I already did a fair bit of First World tinkering, I'd like to stick to it being lawful, on a lawful plane or neutral plane with strong ties.

One idea now is basing it in Hell, or some kind of special crossroads of Inevitables and Devils, but not making it immediately obvious. Like a City of Contracts and Deals type thing.

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Braimos•

Are you wanting them to be like full on evil or just wanting revenge? Or something like evil for the greater good/necessary evil if you catch my drift?

Edit: also I'm bookmarking the fuck out of that link. I've been dying to find a high level one shot

2
LordeTechOP•

I'll include this in the original post too:

The intention of this one shot is a "true" evil game. Antipaladins, death magic, thievery, what have you. Setting is going to be a riff on that one movie Wild Wild West with Will Smith, so think "gentle steampunk in the wild west".

Starting in a mass grave and left for dead gives a decent motive for revenge, or some other ideas floating around are a train robbery, or what have you, but it still feels like I need an underlying story to drag it all together. Maybe something about the town, maybe the Sheriff is an overzealous lawbringer (and push for CN/CE/NE players), maybe steal a bit of literature from Way of the Wicked and have a deity set up shop there and go too far.

Its very much a blank slate, I'm just slowly figuring out what I want background wise and then houserule wise (Guns Everywhere, they don't hit touch AC but get +2 to hit).

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Braimos•

What's the prevalance of magic in this setting? I have an idea but its a little on the cursed birth side so decent magic prevalance would make the most sense.

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LordeTechOP•

Definitely high or normal magic. I personally don't like limiting access to things, and prefer to have a talk with players about what spells and behavior is or isn't ok going in (what spells are banned, how certain problematic spells work, etc).

The intent is for a level 10 gestalt, as last time it was 20 and a lot of feedback I received from my playgroup was it was a bit too hard or too easy at times. 10 feels like a better more comfortable benchmark before 6th level spells, but with enough access to tools and interesting mechanics to get something rolling.

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Braimos•

Cool so this will need some work to fit into your theme you got but as a brainstorm idea here goes.

Let's suppose there is an ultra rare curse that only appears at birth that is rooted in ancient lore and dark magic of long ago. This curse appears right after birth and has an identifiable feature (special scar, eye color, whatever you feel is good). Initially, these children were regarded as demons and immediately disposed of by some ancient order (e.g. holy paladins or whatever). However, over time, these people saw great power in the cursed children and instead saw it as a tool for their god. So instead of killing them, they abducted them and turned them into "super soldiers". The curse effectively is what allows your players to be gestalt which is why they're so strong. However, the curse over time twists the soul and they become more and more corrupt from the dark magic over time. After a certain point, the order disposes of them before they get out of hand.

Basically, your players may have reached that point and were disposed of because they got to powerful (reason why they're level 10). However, the order failed and your players lived by some means/miracle. Now maybe they seek revenge against the order who double crossed them.

Like I said, needs some work to fit more appropriately. Perhaps not even worry about a religious order controlling the corrupt super soldiers?

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Gray_ADFriendliest Orc•

The best antagonists are still evil, because only cartoon villains really want to fight 'good'. I'd say a fitting villain for an evil party would be ones who heavily and knowingly betrayed them and got away perfectly, taking everything from the PCs. There's no better way to make any PC angry than jacking their stuff, and stuff is usually all selfish people care about.

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LordeTechOP•

For sure. The problem is creating that intent and desire during a one shot.

It's also an exercise of putting fun and interesting NPCs, both for social and combat needs, in there. I'd love to leave a "solution" for the players that involves absolutely no combat, just lots of bartering, brokering and level headed but conniving decisionmaking.

I could actually make the town and scenario set in Hell, have it be LE and run by Contract Devils, so a possible out for a smart or conniving player is setting up a series of deals that gets them whatever they want with no bloodshed.

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TDaniels70•

I was going to say this as well. In many stories, evil always seems to loose, not because good is better, but because evil always bites itself in the butt.

Frodo failed in his quest, it was only the evil in Frodo and Golum that destroyed the One Ring.

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hesh582•

The best antagonists for evil games are villains who think that they are good. Bonus points if most of the population also thinks they are good. They often should occupy the "good" position in society.

The harshly lawful sheriff would be the iconic example for the western setting he's going for.

You can't just have everyone be pure evil all the way down, or it kind of takes away the impact of the setting.

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bwc6•

Why are they in a mass grave? You obviously have some ideas about the world/story.

As for the antagonist, it's obviously going to be the person/group that put them in the grave, right? Maybe they don't want revenge. Maybe they just know that the antagonist will stop at nothing to kill them, so they have to kill him first. Having the antagonist believe they are dead is a great opportunity for a surprise attack.

I don't know what would keep the PCs from just running away and starting a new life, but you can figure it out.

As for the actual antagonist, I think that evil vs worse evil was more interesting than evil vs good. Maybe it's a death cult that wants to destroy the whole world. I would assume that some of the party want a world they can take advantage of to keep existing. Even if a PC does crave the destruction of everything, they would want the destruction to be caused by themselves or their chosen evil deity.

That would actually be a pretty great conclusion to an evil campaign: The PCs have defeated the final boss, and as the dust settles they all turn to face the hyper-chaotic evil cleric. He's got his hands on the earth-shattering artifact and starts offering a prayer of sacrifice. Can the other PCs stop him in time to save the world, or does the game end in apocalypse?

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LordeTechOP•

I think greater evil, or "evil but it's evil I don't like" might be the direction I push from, rather than greater evil.

Mass Grave idea was originally for more of an authoritarian state and they were possibly caught, buried and left for dead type thing.

1
Flashskar•

You could go simple and effective with a classic and over the top Paladin that's cringey enough to give satisfaction when they are defeated.

"Haha you foul vipers! Crawl back into the pit that I've cast you down into! I have come yet again to smite you once and for all to cast everlasting light upon the darkness you have wrought upon the people of [insert local settlement of various size here]! Prepare to be cleansed by the divine grace of [Insert goody two shoes god of whatever here] and sent even deeper into the pits of Hell from which you shall never return!"

You could even have them slowly become corrupted and cunning over time turning them into a moralely gray or black character focused solely on the party's destruction if you want them to stick around reveling and in fear of the fact they've changed this hero into a laser focused death machine that is always targeting them either directly or by proxy.

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LordeTechOP•

I'd like to avoid the saturday morning cartoon baddie. I think some of the suggestions that have floated around in the comments are pointing me towards leaning more on the lawful vs. chaotic spectrum. Something like:

Lawful Evil but leaning Lawful subsection of Hell -- Kind of like a City of Deals and Contracts but Vegasey Players broke a contract of some kind, buried alive on the outskirts

Push them for revenge, dismantling the order of the town and nearby area, robbing something important to the city, or playing them at their own game (setting up and navigating contracts that create a "dominoes fall in place" type scenario).

I think that people see Evil game and go too quickly to the Saturday Morning Cartoon approach and I'd like to keep it largely morally ambiguous, but not stifle players who want to be a bloodsucking creature of the night or traitor or whatever. Just give them a common hatred and goal and see how they choose to go about it.

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1
Thecoldflame•

Having a hero as the 'villain' of evil game is always an interesting angle. Show the party hints of the hero's struggle to amass strength to try overcome evil, have them showcase many of the character building moments and tropes of a chosen one type from the other perspective.

1
Hoyinny•

Revenge is always a good motivator. If they fuck the party over and/or are generally dicks, it doesn’t matter whose a worse person. All that matters is they die screaming

1