Well this about sums things up 😂
Posted Sep 10, 2018, 11:12 PM UTC
16839
Story time.
Quando facevo le elementari (circa 20 anni fà) la proloco del mio minuto paesino organizzava la permanenza di un'intera classe di elementari/medie di ragazzi ucraini provenienti da Chernobyl per 3 mesi l'anno. La mia famiglia ne ospitava uno che aveva circa 2-3 anni più di me.
Se ben ricordo passavano 3 mesi in Italia, 3 in Spagna, 3 in Inghilterra e 3 a casa loro. Lo facevano per stare lontano dalle radiazioni e per "perdere" quelle che avevano già assorbito (non sò come funziona).
Al terzo anno di fila che trascorre con la mia famiglia il ragazzo si sente male. Capogiri e svenimenti, lo portiamo all'ospedale. Quando arrivano le sue insegnanti scopriamo che l'anno precedente, dopo aver lasciato l'Italia, gli avevano trovato un problema all'occhio o al cervello (non ricordo i dettagli e se mi dicono il nome della malattia me la dimentico dopo 10 secondi). Doveva essere operato ma in Spagna e Inghilterra avrebbe dovuto pagare privatamente il ragazzo (o in quel caso la famiglia che lo ospitava) e quindi a parte qualche farmaco non gli avevano dato niente. In Ucraina invece l'avevano messo in lista di attesa per un intervento di rimozione dell'occhio e lobotomia (della lobotomia non sono sicuro, sono passati 20 anni).
L'ospedale italiano non ha chiesto niente, l'hanno operato (senza esportare l'occhio né altro) e l'hanno tenuto ricoverato per 2 mesi. Quando è uscito doveva solo tenere una benda sull'occhio per evitare i raggi solari.
Quello tra l'altro era l'ultimo anno che potevamo ospitarlo perché il termine massimo erano 3 anni. Una volta tornato in patria, dopo poco tempo, ci arriva una lettera dalla sua famiglia dove ci ringraziano per tutto e ci informano che lo stato gli ha riconosciuto una pensione di invalidità per l'intervento.
81
I'm always happy when I can shit over the American healthcare system but this example has nothing to do with it.
30
bUt ItaLy'S HeAltHcARe iSN't FrEe!!
28
edit: apparentemente ce ne sono anche ITT
13
American here, can confirm, our healthcare sucks.
The problem is, we don't trust the government. Anything they do is always over budget, and with delays.
I'm 100% for universal healthcare, but there's also like 20 reasons it would be a nightmare here.
10
With no disrespect intended to the wonderful political class in Italy, I don't believe the Italian government has a particular reputation for competence either.
And yet the Italian health service is world class.
That's because - as in almost all other developed nations - the health system is funded by taxation but run by healthcare professionals.
The argument you have used is incredibly common in the States but is completely flawed, because it doesn't reflect the realities of how such a system actually operates.
81
Did you read the other post I made with a reddit link?
So there's that. Plus stuff like this: https://np.reddit.com/r/NeutralPolitics/comments/6g1ags/the_real_live_experiment_in_kansas_has_ended_what/din1mrt/
What this all means is, we have an unregulated and inefficient market for public healthcare right now. All the normal market forces are already at work, with those who can pay footing the bill for basic care for those who cannot pay (the same end result of universal single-payer healthcare), but there is a Byzantine web of middlemen, insurance billing specialists, coders who input billing codes just the right way, lawyers, public and private investors all mixed up in the system. I have a friend who makes a rich six figure salary just consulting with hospitals on how to increase their recovery percentages (kind of like search engine optimization just for hospital billing).
Your system works. UK's system works. Ours doesn't, but it employees probably millions. To make it work would mean hiring 1/2 of them. Companies would go broke, people lose their jobs, etc. It would be a political suicide for anyone involved.
....but I'm still all for it.
7
And solutions lie in a AR-15
9
I never said I agree with him.
5
Took me a bit to find it, but here's a decent post with multiple reasons why universal healthcare in the US would be problematic: https://old.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/97to2y/serious_americans_who_are_opposed_to_universal/e4b92ec/
-1†
Thank you for the link. Now, I'm no economist or anything, but that post to me looks full of weak excuses. Don't take this as a personal attack. Let's sum it up:
The US has a huge public debt, therefore cannot afford more public spending
Italy has one of the highest public debts in the world, we still manage to do it.
Normal people don't have enough money to be able to afford taxes for it
Yeah, again look at us.
Poor people use the system the most and don't pay taxes so they are a burden
Well, is letting them die a better solution then? And anyway it's a fallacy: in the US poor people need more expensive treatment simply because they cannot afford to "nip problems in the bud", if you slash your hand and can't afford to go to the ER, decide to wait it out or something and then get an infection, that is going to be more expensive to treat of course. I do concede that the US is more dangerous than most of Europe, so there's going to be more violence-related injuries, but that seems like a drop in the ocean of hospital care, honestly.
Different areas of the US may be poorer than others, and the richer ones would end up paying for the poor ones. Would you pay for Greek health-care?
What the hell, I'm from the north of Italy, I'm already doing it towards the south which is poorer, and since Italy is a net contributor to the EU, we already pay to develop other parts of Europe, even if not specifically for health-care. This is the usual American egoism but on a society-wide scale: "why should I pay to help this poor tramp?". Because an human being is going to suffer otherwise? Do you need more reasons?
The government paying for everything is going to increase costs further because companies will charge whatever they want
They already do, apparently. You know where this doesn't happen? Where there's public health-care
Our government is too corrupt and antiquated to do this properly.
Dude: Italy. Come on.
We'll hire minorities because of politics instead of hiring the (white male) best.
Oh no, the system is going to CRUMBLE TO THE GROUND BECAUSE OF THE CHICKS, THE SP*CKS AND THE NI**ERS!
Ok that last one was a bit over the top but you get the point
37
Bravo. Soprattutto per:
"why should I pay to help this poor tramp?". Because an human being is going to suffer otherwise? Do you need more reasons?
Ma che ci vuoi fare, loro sono fatti così. Finchè continuano a buttare soldi dentro alla loro macchina da guerra nesssuno batte un occhio, ma guai se dovessero pagare per un servizio sanitario accessibile a tutti.
17
10k upvotes and a gold for that bullshit?
5
so, were all these guys taking their sons to Italy to receive free healtcare?
https://www.tsa.gov/blog/2018/09/04/tsa-week-review-august-20th-26th
/S of course
1
While you can disagree with it, in the US, we have a right to own firearms. What you have is folks who grab a couple of their guns and go to the shooting range. They get home, and put those away...but missed one in the bag. 2 months later they grab that bag as a carry on and....they are arrested. I know you're going to say it's insane and crazy to simply misplace a gun. To many, it's like a knife, or a hammer. It's simply a tool and not an evil killing thing.
-14
right, so I presume that the ppl taking hand grenades and batarangs/throwing stars had forgotten them in the bag after the last war or were vigilantes in disguise
We have a right to own firearms in Italy too, but I cas assure that nobody is so retarded to go to the airport security scan with a loaded gun, even worse with round chambered
16
The hand grenades could be and are, since they were not removed by a bomb squad, fake. They might hand grenades that look real but are a lighter for cigarettes. Some folks think that's "cool". For throwing stars and such, again, some people just think they look cool and buy them, while on vacation, and don't know it's illegal to travel with. Not everyone travels monthly. Some people haven't flown in 20 years if ever.
2
You had a right to own slaves too, but that like... changed over time.
runs
4
Do you think he actually believes what he just said? Do you think that he voted for Trump?
1
there's also like 20 reasons it would be a nightmare here.
Care to elaborate? (A couple would suffice for my own curiosity)
1
Elsewhere in the comments I replied with, and may have been downvoted for simply posting someone else's opinions: https://old.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/97to2y/serious_americans_who_are_opposed_to_universal/e4b92ec/
I'm not saying those are valid excuses, but they remain true.
0
Thanks.
Most of those points are quintessentially American, especially the distrust for Federal Government and putting the blame on the poorest for rising costs. While I can't say whether the suspicion towards the Government is grounded in reality (honestly, a very few countries around the world have a fair amount of trust in their governments), a universal healthcare is proven to drive down the costs of medical treatment for everyone – preventing a lot of people from falling into bankruptcy and poverty in the first place.
A lot of countries manage to maintain a universal healthcare without succumbing to massive amounts of public debt. Italy is not a great example since our public debt is indeed massive (but the share of public spending on healthcare is substantially lower than the US), but the British NHS works just fine, while keeping taxation to a sane level. Also, in the UK there's a flourishing market for private health insurance, which works very well if you'd rather avoid going to a GP and wait a long time for non-urgent checks and treatment, and it's peanuts (up to a £200 if you're going for the most comprehensive with cancer cover) compared to the ones in the US.
6
But I would argue it is peanuts because it has to compete with the NHS, so they can't price hike.
1
Are you really complaining about the inefficiency of government with fucking ITALIANS?????? newsflash mate, it's the same everywhere.
It would be a nightmare in the us because you allowed insurance companies to have a strangle hold of healthcare. You allowed corporations to royally fuck you all in the ass because cOmMuNisM iS bAd, gO cApItAlIsM
1
so no need for ar-15 in italy.
Checkmate.
5
weren't the british hospital the public one and the italian one the private?
not that i prefer private healthcare of course
-30
I suggest you get your facts straight
26
This is actually right. The Italian hospital they’re referring to is actually owned by the Vatican (and, funnily enough, is not Italian territory), although fully integrated with the SSN, meaning that you don’t get billed for treatment there.
8
The UK has a huge national health care system.
3
Italy has free public healthcare, UK I think you have a obligatory insurance as soon as you start to work, until then is free.
3
The SSN was modeled in the 70s after the British NHS. They work in the same way, and are paid for by general taxation. “National insurance” doesn’t really mean anything special in the UK context.
6
when you get 29 downvotes for literally stating a fact.
-5
Next time try literally stating true facts.
1
the kid was under public healthcare in UK.
the hospital where he was supposed to go in italy is owned by the church and therefore private.
1
If it is so, next time try stating your facts in an intelligible and possibly sourced way, or 29 people can misunderstand you.
2
Aiutiamoli a casa loro