r/pokemon•
Chromagna

A alternative way to increase a Pokemon game's difficulty in future games

Discussion

Please provide some feedback, I'd love to hear any additions. Please try to read most of it before commenting, I tried to cover most counter-arguments already.
Usually a heated source of debate for Pokémon fans is the difficulty of the games and how to make it more challenging. With the release of Let's Go coming out soon and a new main series game coming out later on, I've noticed a lot of people fearing alienation from the series in regards to not just mechanics, but to how much of a challenge is going to be presented. 
Obviously we would want to accommodate for all fans; those that want the hardcore, gruelling challenge, those that want a relaxed, heartwarming adventure and those that want a perfect in between. When someone wants more of a challenge with Pokémon, a nuzlocke run is usually the most applicable solution and I see a lot of people recommending nuzlockes to people who complain about breezing through the game with little thought. I also see some people wanting it as a base feature on the game but I personally find that nuzlockes have some shortcomings and aren't a great way of presenting challenge.
First off, nuzlocke runs are entirely self-enforced. While it could be argued that this doesn't entirely make a difference, this makes the runs easier to exploit and overall not enjoyable to some. Players can grind until the threat of an opponent's Pokémon is nullified and the challenge is removed. Alongside this, some people like myself just don't enjoy self-enforced rules. They feel inhibiting and I've sometimes caught myself out on not realising a Pokémon has fainted and continued using it without realising. While it could be seen as a minor issue, it should preferably still be avoided.
A second issue with nuzlockes is that they don't utilise a core component of what can make a Pokémon game challenging and that is the strategy of trying to outplay an opponent. The AI battles are usually very easy to exploit and read, using nonsensical moves and switches that have no effect on the outcome at all except to sometimes even screw themselves over. Difficulty should test the knowledge of battle, not just to avoid getting hit by miscellaneous critical hits.
While having nuzlocke as a base game difficulty could help alleviate some of the issues, it doesn't help with the latter points or some other bad situations such as the rare case of getting a shiny or accidentally losing a highly trained Pokémon forever while fighting NPCs. This is where I would like to provide a solution to this that would hopefully help fix this issue, while also maintaining a casual experience for those that may not like Let's Go, but still want to play the core games. 
Firstly, the game should give the player an option on character creation to select a normal or hard difficulty. The normal mode would be the typically fashioned game of Pokémon and would allow all the usual features that would be in a core series game. The hard difficulty however, would offer a greater challenge by pitting higher leveled Pokémon against the player, an experience/level cap on your Pokémon, a smarter and more diverse AI to battle against as well as other minor features. 
An obvious limitation to this would be that a player could still cheese the game by going back and forth to a Pokémon centre. My solution to this would be to block off the escape to a town once the player has entered the route and make it available to explore properly once the player has made it to the other end, with trainers only becoming defeated upon making it to the next town. This would allow for a more careful and tactical approach to team building, where tanks and walls may be favoured over button mashing super effective moves. Items and money would become useful and invaluable instead of redundant, since they would need to be used resourcefully to ensure the route is passed. This would be a good way to make use of the resources the game has given to the player and creates new strategies and challenge within the exploration of routes. It also means the game doesn't become too overbearing with losing Pokémon and can maintain pressure while allowing players to feel at ease at not having lost the game entirely.
To make the game flow better, experience and leveling should also be reworked to make use of the full potential of the amount of levels available. Most Pokémon games end with the player's team only reaching 50-70, which isn't that high considering they can reach 100. Much to the bane of the more competitive and thorough players, Sun and Moon was especially bad to grind up to level 100 with and while this is annoying for those who need moves from later levels, it also made the new and useful hyper training a generally huge waste of time.
For Pokémon to maintain difficulty and to allow further flexibility for trainers, a level cap could be given before and after every gym with a Pokémon not being able to go beyond a certain experience threshold until the gym is defeated and the level cap changed. This would completely remove leveling cheese and would allow for more fair gym battles that can be focused more heavily on the actual strategy of the fight rather than the levels that each Pokémon has. For traded Pokémon, a 'true' experience gauge that can't be altered could be introduced as to not upset the campaign leveling. This would allow the Pokémon to retain its original level but function as a level capped Pokémon during the campaign. Once the player gains the required badge to see the Pokémon's level, the experience gauge would function as normal.
My next proposition would be to remove IVs and seperate hidden powers into a random value for each type. This would still help Pokémon retain some original flair, would allow access to Fairy hidden power and would remove the desire to use action replays in VGC format. IVs were used in the past to make certain trainers harder as well as add some individuality to a Pokémon. By fully utilising levels and level caps more, they could easily tweak certain Pokémon to be higher level and therefore a larger threat. EVs as well as hidden powers would remain to give a Pokémon a unique flair and further customisability between sets just like it always has. The biggest to benefit from this would be the competitive players. If this were to happen, soft resetting for high IV legendaries, breeding for hidden power IVs and chaining dittos, all the heavily RNG reliant factors would not be a problem any more.
However, smarter AI would be necessary to make full use of the changes. While playing Pokémon, most battles from start to finish are just making use of super effective moves to quickly finish off the opponent. Now that gyms and other trainers would be on a level playing field, it would now have the potential to test the player. Trial battles were a good way of showcasing what even some simple design can do to amplify the difficulty. While not the most challenging thing possible, trials showed that trainers needed to be prepared or risk getting swept by the totem. Simple changes to formula such as giving gym Pokémon items, coverage moves or even making them double battles would significantly help along with an AI that is able to punish mistakes. With higher levels, better AI and extra utility, gyms could be feared again just like the dreaded Goldenrod gym with Whitney instead of pushovers like the Coumarine gym with Ramos.
With these additions, post-game activities could be freed up. With highly trained Pokémon, more options open up for further battles and challenges. For those that liked trials in place of gyms, trials could be re-included as hidden side missions on each route that provide an extra layer of difficulty. With high level Pokémon, trials of each type could be unique and challenging. Imagine an attack boosted, earthquake Garchomp being fed sandstorms and health from a support Pokémon, or a special attack boosted, trickroom supported Reuniclus in psychic terrain. The possibilities for end game trials could be fun, challenging and fresh from all the unchallenging and empty post game content of the last few games.
Naturally, this would be a huge overhaul in mechanics and may feel jarring to those that love the current working of the game but by giving the player options to select the way they want to play, it gives even more pathways than before for all fans to enjoy. Would you rather a game like this or not?

Posted Sep 25, 2018, 4:16 PM UTC

024
arcane-boi•

GF could simply add like 3 difficulties for the games: Easy, Normal, Hard. Rescales all encounter rates. Affects the level ranges of wild Pokemon, and team level range for all trainers. Balances exp gain. Adjust catch rates. Tweak little things like AI (trainers use more items or switch out more) or (wild mons flee more often). Just stuff to have 3 variations of the game for children, people who play casually, and hardcore players.

8

This is a good idea.

1
ChromagnaOPTeam Flair•

It would be a lot less work too I guess. I think the big one is experience balancing. Most battles are super easy because the other pokemon just simply aren't as strong.

1
anthayashi•

TBH there is no real difficulty in pokemon. Difficulty is really self-imposed. people always mention B2W2's difficulty setting. But it does not really matter. Your opponent have higher level, but you also gain more exp. And no matter what game, you can always over grind your pokemon and easily scroll through all the games. you can even trade your pokemon to a friend who help you to level up and trade back!

The only real way to have difficulty is to scale all battle into a fixed level, give AI pokemon competitive moveset, make AI think like a human. If not, like i said, people can just grind their pokemon and easily move through the games.

3
ivanbjeShiny like a diamond•

Truth. I went back to replay gen 2 and I realized that it's not more difficult at all like I remembered it, I just have to grind more. I feel like the level curve of sun/moon was pretty good if you just defeat trainer and give all of your mons equal spotlight. It also has much more varied movesets and I found myself using stat changing moves like screech and harden, status moves and even battle items as well to get through it(nuzlocke) where as in Silver I just trained up and then used a damaging move. Occasional screech and thunder wave but that's it.

I rarely felt like I had to plan how to get through fights in Silver. It always just felt like I was either juat strong enough or not strong enough. Which required grinding when I wasn't, was my favourite games as a kid, after this they are no longer.

I didn't like gen 7 when they came out, now I am starting to consider them my favourite games

3
3shady13•

How do I use the B2W2 difficulty setting? Is it a mod or in game?

1
ivanbjeShiny like a diamond•

You have to beat the games once first iirc

2
TexasAndroid1977-1583-8258•

For whatever reason they made it very difficult to even use.

You have to complete a game on Black 2 or White 2. That gives you the ability to send a setting to a different game copy to allow that different copy to start the game on Easy or Hard mode. One game sends Easy mode, one sends Hard. I never remember which sends which.

So you need 2 game copies, and two DS systems, and one of the game copies must be completed.

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Key_System

1
3shady13•

Ty

1
ChromagnaOPTeam Flair•

I did try to overcome this by having level caps so that the player can't grind past a certain point as to spoil gym battles at the very least and if they make it so that Pokemon beyond that cap cant be controller past the cap and just refuse to use moves at all I feel like they could have a decent way of making the games have some sort of challenge. While I do agree that for the most part, the battles just aren't going to be anywhere close to being a huge challenge like an actual player, if the AI had access to stronger and buffed up Pokemon before the player did and the player can't level cheese, it would mean the player has to actually think about their battles a little bit.

1
Yorkmaster227•

Many Rpgs have a difficulty setting , I don't see why GF doesn't do the same. Maybe because they don't allow multiple save files ? However I do like how if you turn off the exp share in gen 8 the games do feel a bit harder. If they do continue down that road , I will be content with that as well.

2
ChromagnaOPTeam Flair•

Yeah. Im for the most part fine with where the games are at now especially after USUM with trials being a little tougher but feel like they could at the very least have a challenge mode with extra levels and/or better AI battles.

2
Yorkmaster227•

I agree , having different challenges would bring extra exitment to the game. For example just how they require a super effective type to enter a gym, they could do a full 180 and ban a certain type from entering the gym to provide extra challenge , although most would be against that since they don't have " free range " to choose their party , but as a challenge mode would be fun. Better AI would be good too , although I would like the AI to climb incrementally as you progress through normal story anyways. I enjoyed trials in sun and moon , and I would love for somthing like that to come back as well , but with more challenging puzzles as well .

2
raprap07•

I'm just recently getting back into pokemon and last played like when sapphire was originally released. Regarding difficulty of pokemon games, did game freak mention any hardware limitations? Like i would think by now they could fit a better AI system in the games, have trainers actually use strategies, and then make the key npc battles, like rivals, gyms and elite four among others have scaling pokemon levels depending on your 6 highest leveled pokemons along with improved AI.

I'm not really up to date with any news on game freak so i don't know if they claim any hardware limitations but with the way the physical sizes of storage are getting smaller and smaller and allowing them to put more storage space, i'm think there should be little to no limitations on the hardware except maybe like increasing the cost.

2
ChromagnaOPTeam Flair•

Maybe they would have had issues before which would probably have been in relation to performance issues rather than space, the games are now moving to the switch would be easily powerful enough to fit in an improved AI. I doubt it would have been an issue before but even so, it wont matter now. I hope they take the extra processing power they had to make the battles look a bit more lively. The 3D models are great but they can be really boring compared to gen 5s moving sprites imo

1
raprap07•

Yeah they could improve the models especially with the hardware available now. For me it really boils down to improving the AI, make it more challenging. If they think it would be bad since they cater to young players then enable difficulty setting in the start of the game. Even with new features or kinds of battles available it will be lack luster if the Npc AI is not really challenging. The scaling level to be around the same levels as the player's pokemon would add another layer of challenge so no more steam rolling.

2
Gawlf85I am the night!•

Having all these deep gameplay changes be part of a difficulty setting is impractical. You end up having to develop two very different versions of the same game, and they wouldn't benefit significantly from it.

It's best if these mechanics were part of the game as a whole, but could be tweaked to make it easier or harder. Or at the very least, you should be able to turn on or off separate mechanics, instead of one single switch making the game completely different. And that means they must be easily interchangeable, as it is now for Battle Mode ("Change" or "Set") or Exp Share.

1
ChromagnaOPTeam Flair•

That is true, it would mean implementing a lot more. I do hope they at least add something like they did from Gen 5 post-game at the start of the game, or try to improve the AI battles.

1
dhazza6•

They have to market towards younger crowd. If you want hard mode play with Nuzlocke rules. (Self induced) Only being able to use the first poke u find in each new area. If they faint, they "dead". If you black out/faint. Game over, start over. Oh yea, most important rule: Must name each poke u catch or at least the ones you can use. There are other variant rules u can add.

1
Jaraxxurino•

But I want to play with the mons I like and not with 20 Ratatas and Pidgeys

2
dhazza6•

Newer gens , that doesn't happen. Buddies and I errata'd no dups as well. Also in the newer gens there are new areas all the time so you end up with a plethora of pokes. Overlapping types could happen and you go through some areas where u do get janky pokes (Yungoos) but u wanted a hard mode. This makes u use pokes you might not have- did u know Mr.Mine is an awesome dual screener? My Nuz run of Ultra Sun "showed me da way"

1
ChromagnaOPTeam Flair•

Nuzlocke's usually aren't a whole lot difficult though when grinding is so easy to do. I could also self-impose a level cap or something along those lines but its harder to do manually and find out an appropriate level to cap at, and it involves a lot of manual tweaking. This wouldn't even fix the fact that basically all battles are won with just spamming A too.

1
dhazza6•

I mean u can grind most games to make fights easier. Also turn off auto switch so u cant just switch when they do. Nuzlocke is all about self imposing handicaps, thats why I believe naming your Pokes is a must, hurts more when they die

1