Source
r/miamidolphins•
MotivationCheck

Cause and Effect

Like many of you, I've been all over the sub the last couple of days arguing my head off about my opinion on Tannehill.

The fact of the matter is, whats been going with our offense is simple cause and effect. What top tier team has an offensive line as bad as we do? The first three games when we had some semblance of protection for ryan he was posting good numbers and then against new england, where our protection was exposed, his numbers fell. but its not just him, its the whole offense as rushing just isnt there either.

im not making excuses for his faults though, because he has them. the interception and fumble in cincinatti couldve both been avoided had he just eaten the sack. his confidence gets shaken easily and it snowballs from there.

if we're going to complain about his ability to go through progressions, complain about how he has 2 seconds to look at 4 different receivers that arent open. he can extend the play (he got out of 3 sacks against Cinci that i can remember) but even when he does, hes hit almost immediately or nobody is open.

again, the guy has his faults but we as a fanbase need to be more intelligent with our criticism. Direct it at the front office for making shit decisions with the offensive line (bringing in sitton whos been injured more often than not, not even drafting one lineman in 2018), not at the guy running for his life every play.

Posted Oct 9, 2018, 2:33 PM UTC

2164
ccam92•

I’ve long been a Tannehill supporter. I know it seems reactionary, but that has changed since the last game.

The argument has always been that you can win with Tanny when everything goes well around him. Problem is that this is the NFL, and things never go according to plan. I’ve finally learned my lesson, and hope they are ready to move on. Would love to see us trade up for Herbert from Oregon. That kid is the real deal.

16
jwcolour•

I've long been a supporter as well, and I still think he's an alright QB, but I've also always been a proponent of the idea that you should draft a QB almost every year until you find someone really good. Doesn't even always mean you have to pick a high one.

Even after the Patriots found Brady they continued to draft QB's, some stunk, others were okay and flipped for big hauls, but they kept drafting them. Even if at his high cap rate we keep Ryan another year we have to start thinking about the future.

To OP's point though, this line has been atrocious for his entire tenure, and looked promising this year until these injuries piled up. This really needs to be addressed as well.

9
USCswimmer•

The real question is, do you think that a rookie QB would do any better with this Oline?

I do not. When Tannehill has time he has shown he is good with his progression and stats show he has a good deep ball.

As of right now I don't think QB is our #1 overall concern... we need to fix our line before we look at improving on QB, because we'd just be setting them up for failure like we have Tannehill.

6
jwcolour•

I feel like you can address it or begin to address both positions at the same time.

1
Yurple_nurple•

We've been chasing a good offensive line since he got here. I'm starting to think it's harder finding 5 really good o-lineman than it is finding a really good QB. Especially when you consider injuries.

The league is becoming QB centric, our coach's biggest strength is working with the QB position and passing game. I think it would benefit us greatly to go for a special QB in the draft that can cover up some of our holes on offense that have been plaguing us for years. Because it's become very, very clear we can't put the right team around Tannehill after 7 off-seasons of trying.

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JCVent•

There was a bunch of good Olinemen in the Charles Harris Draft, we just didn’t pick them.

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ccam92•

Absolutely, OLine has been a huge need for the past decade. Need to get that addressed no matter who the QB is.

Tanny is good, but not good enough to cover weaknesses in other areas. In the NFL, there’s always gonna be injuries, so we need someone who can help cover when they happen.

Definitely agree we should have been be drafting and trying to develop the past few years, but at this point, I want a Top 10 guy.

1
MotivationCheckOP•

I still think we should draft a QB as well, only because if all of this isnt just bad supporting cast then we need to have a plan for the future. Brock Osweiler and Fales arent the future.

i dont think everything needs to go well around him, as he can still make amazing throws when under pressure, he just needs alot less to go wrong than whats currently happening.

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ccam92•

“Next year is a better QB class, we should wait for that” is a huge trap imo.

We should learn from other teams the past few years (Eagles, Chiefs, etc). If they think Herbert (or someone else) is the guy, I say go get him. Tired of playing games especially at the QB position.

5
AskMeAboutTheJets•

Exactly. Stop waiting and pussyfooting around. Trade up, be aggressive, get your guy. Sure giving up draft picks sucks, but if we're getting a new QB, we're probably in rebuild mode anyway, so who gives a fuck if we're bad the next few years.

5
ogethewriter•

Last time they traded up to get “their guy” in the first round was Dion Jordan. Granted, this team has drafted better the last two drafts, but if you trust them to make the right call then you have more faith than I do at this point.

4
ccam92•

The good thing about our team is this is not a complete tear down.

We’ve got the WRs, RBs, and TE on offense. And the D has some really good vets mixed with good young players. Get a QB, improve the OLine, get a big body WR, and add a couple pieces to the defense.

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Swordswoman•

I think it's worth mentioning that... especially in recent years... drafting offensive linemen has been a massive issue for all teams. There's only ever about 5-10 actually qualified OL fellows who should be drafted, and then the rest is guesswork and luck. Those qualified guys go fast (and early), not because they're any greater of a player than anyone else in early rounds, but because their value is bloated by scarcity at the position.

We drafted other players, aware of our weaknesses on the line, betting that we could fill them in free agency and via trades so we could focus on acquiring the guys of real value (e.g. Minkah Fitzpatrick).

It's a bold strategy, and maybe still the right one. We're just paying the price of unfortunate injuries.

14
capthowdy0000•

I think it's worth mentioning that... especially in recent years... drafting offensive linemen has been a massive issue for all team

I've heard this mentioned a lot. Can someone explain why? I feel like a decade ago drafting a lineman in the first round was money in the bank

1
MotivationCheckOP•

the transition from college to pro style offense is very difficult for many guards and tackles, something to do with stances, coming off blocks etc

3
spooks152•

Because teams that have need at o line and have the high enough picks to get them often have more glaring holes so they don't. You have to have a good young core of skill position players before you start drafting linemen high. I think we are at that position now as a franchise with what we have so I hope we start taking more linemen early.

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JCVent•

I think it has more to do with our team being absolute fuckwits and drafting Olinemen based on physical traits, compared to players like Tunsil who have good technique, schools like Wisconsin, Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Alabama always have amazing Olinemen that transition well into the NFL, look we drafted Asiata and Billy Turner because they were known as brutes, but turns out they call actual flags in the NFL.

1
quepas•

There's another thing that's happened that no one is pointing to, maybe because we've blocked it out of our heads: Landry is gone. Landry was the security blankets of security blankets. People complained about Tannehill checkdowns to Landry, but Jarvis was usually good to catch the pass when the plays broke down.

With Landry gone, we have a lot more weapons, but the only one with any actual rapport with Tannehill is Stills who's most likely down the field. Amendola, Wilson, or both (depending on whose on the field) need to have their task to come back to Tannehill when they've run their route and the ball isn't there. If the O-Line is an issue, then the team has to step up and do their part. And the coaches have to scheme around it. Expecting Tannehill to be something he's not isn't going to be the answer, nor is blaming Tannehill for what he is.

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MotivationCheckOP•

youre 100% right, i didnt even think about landrys role in taking the pressure off tannehill. i hate the price tag but i wish we had kept him

3
Mada1999•

I said it in another post about the offense; the WRs we have are all smaller gadget players. I'm not sure they can be trusted to create separation and make contested catches. It definitely is hurting the offense and Tannehill. The loss of Landry and even Parkers injury is more important than people realize imo

2
BizarroCranke•

I think Tannehill is a very smart and a very hard worker that has maximized those qualities into an NFL career. Of course he has skill and ability to be in the NFL, I just wonder how much NFL QB skill he has, naturally, compared to what hard work he has put in to overcome any talent deficiencies.

I don’t know enough or researched enough to know if some of his issues, recognizing pocket pressure for example, are things that he can outwork. I know he overcame his deep ball issue, so who knows.

2
MotivationCheckOP•

i think it all falls on the line. that stretch in 2016 where we had the unicorn line (Albert, Tunsil, Pouncey, Bushrod/Larsen, James) and sub variations of the unicorn line we were hot as hell. tannehill proved to us then that if you give him even an average amount of time to make decisions, he makes the right ones. since NE, we havent had that and it shows, but people just want someone to blame

1
BizarroCranke•

I agree, I think the onus is completely on the patchwork line. Other than that, it’s really tough to judge Tannehill when it comes to the amount of coaches/coordinators/skill positions that he has had through out his 6-7 year career. What’s the ratio between his warts to the warts of what’s been around him?

Here’s another question—does he have “IT” or not? I think he’s pretty good and has improved with his deficiencies, but it’s still hard for me to say if he has “it.”

1
MotivationCheckOP•

i would say he doesnt have IT, thats rodgers, wilson, brady, brees type stuff, the inexplicable ability to pull crazy plays out of your ass. but hes a tier below them, especially when he has pass protection that they all (minus wilson) have.

hes just a good QB provided you dont throw him to the wolves, like we've been doing. i mean shit, he might be top 10 if he had a consistent line but i feel like we'll never know. we've effectively wasted ryan tannehill

1
TCup20•

We didnt have Larsen in 2016. I agree with what you said I just wanted to mention it.

1
MotivationCheckOP•

Ah shit who was the other rotational guy? It wasn’t Jesse Davis was it?

1
TCup20•

IIRC Bushrod started all 16 games at RG.

Edit: Billy Turner and Dallas Thomas both got cut after week 5, but they both played on the left side that season. Anthony Steen statted 7 games at Center, but its likely there was a game Bushrod got hurt and Steen finished the game for him.

1
Yurple_nurple•

He's got paralysis by analysis. Good defenses will make him think and when that happens he completely disappears from the game. He looked absolutely lost in the Patriots game and we might as well have had a rookie out there.

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bartscrc•

It's interesting to watch everyone's opinion of Tannehill change every time major parts of the o-line get injured. It really is astounding how few people actually see the connection.

1
MotivationCheckOP•

Dude, right? It’s mind blowing. And there’s so many of them and they all upvote each other so they seem louder than his supporters. Pretty frustrating to witness as a fan

1
RunnincmFire Fraud Gase •

122 net passing yards vs the Jets = good numbers. Looooool

-5
MotivationCheckOP•

The same Jets D that made stafford look like a chump. What’s your point Looooool

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AskMeAboutTheJets•

Stafford also played the worst game of his career up until that point. Sure, Jets D did what they had to, but Stafford looked awful.

0†
MotivationCheckOP•

It doesn’t matter. Good D is good D, we can’t pick and choose how to apply “oh he just had a bad game” when there’s this much parity in the league.

4
AskMeAboutTheJets•

It kinda does matter though. The Jets D wasn't like the 85 Bears that game, they caught Stafford on a terrible day. Sure, they played well, not trying to say they're shit, but they're not that good.

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