Source
topherclayThe King•

Scorned’s gonna have like a 10% win rate now, but maybe people shouldn’t have been outting themselves Day 1 because all they care about is winning. It’s like they say, “Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game.”

That's an unfortunate attitude to see coming from a game developer.

If winning isn't fun, then that's a failing of the developers and not the players.

5
sweaterlad•

Yet alchs often out d1 and there doesn't seem to be any issue with that.

2
JanoRis•

Just wished the yoyoing on alch would stop. Alch was at a good place last patch. He should keep his Poison/Bleed Immunity

2
Kajiic•

While I agree Alch has been bounced around more than any other character save for maybe King, I can imagine it's such a hard class to balance being it's one of the only True Neutrals with a win condition of just survive.

It seems lately that Alchs are pretty much an honorary BD class like Scorned when they could peek faction. I think truth pots should go and bring back bleed poison immunity.

2
JanoRis•

Yeah seems the devs just want it to be an all-rounder

1
sweaterlad•

No.

Alchs simply have too many good abilities, good night immunity, and an easy win condition. They're far and away the most popular class (for a reason) and the only reason their win rate isn't in the 75-90% range is because of accidental kills on them by ignorant evils-once an alch outs they're basically guarenteed to win. BD simply do not kill alchs, unless they're discovered bombing n1 or n2. Even if they aren't sharing their logs daily, BD will exe other BD trying to push on alchs. And for evils, they have to waste a precious night killing someone who wins with them or will likely vote with them, since alchs are consistently the most traitorous class in the game. And even then they might not kill them because alchs get 3 nights of death immunity.

As is, Alch is a tolerable though still badly designed class. No, they should not have bleed and poison immunity since that's the only reliable counter measure for evils against an alch playing hard BD. If you give them immunity then remove stoneskins, having both is ridiculous. Truth potions do need to be removed however: they were never needed in the first place and do not mesh with the class's concept at all. Healing or killing is the base of the alchemist. If devs want to change it up keep the mechanics focused around that, like potions randomly healing or killing (or occupying or investigating). Make the mechanic so it always heals if the target is bleeding/poisoned/attacked if you want, but the class needs to be overhauled or removed. Its bull that they get 4 powerful night abilities to choose from over the 1-2 that every other class gets. No other class even has 3 night abilities yet alch has 4. Bulls****.

Personally I always kill alchs out of spite, if I can kill as a class. Stupid strat? Usually, but it's the devs fault for making a class heads and shoulders above every other one in the game.

1
JanoRis•

well he only had 1 SS last patch and a n1 immunity. that was in a good place imo. But i agree the Potion numbers should be adjusted esepcially Truth potion.

Many alchs get killed late game, since they will rock the vote for the NK more often than not. Also people are afraid of the Alch late game backstab. So many unseen or cult will kill him, if their vote power is threatened.

2
Kajiic•

I agree with most if not all these changes. I still prefer the archaic Scorned where you has specific targets but that's pretty much filled by Inquisitor's role.

Whisper King meta is something I've always hated but I know a lot of people love it. I think it takes too much power onto one role and can turn out horribly by one bad player as King. If I had a dime every time I've heard "good King throw" I'd be able to buy ToL for every gamer out there.

I think players need more time to figure out good distract plays, it's not as good as Reaper chill and still doesn't last the whole Defense and Vote phase so most people will swap to pardon when the person is finally able to talk before the voting ends. Needs to be used more before someone is voted up, or after to stop someone suggesting a Prince target.

I'd like to see the Knight get some Court Wizard love. CW used to be the zzzzz class but now has a pretty good set of tools and roles. The Knight is pretty much an exe on sight class for the BD since they come up K/O like other killing classes, yet their defend can't be proven and the CS has a chance to take out 2 BD in a single night (both the Knight and their BD target). BD exe on sight cause it's a common Assassin/Reaper/Sorc/Poss claim since general investigation skills won't pick them up. Worse your Good King trusts you, gets a bad lead or feeling on another BD and asks you to CS that person, either you do and you both die, or don't and get exe'd the next day

I'm not sure yet what could be adjusted on Knight, and I know it's an amalgamation of the Veteren and Vigilante class from ToS, but something would be nice.

2
Kekaronio•

Just a random thought, but perhaps if Knight CS'd a BD it would bleed them instead of killing them (knight still suicides). This would give BD a chance to save the person, confirm a healer, or of course, for evil and neuts to cause more chaos while not being as punishing on the Knight.

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