Source
r/learndota2•
Jenobious

Ideas about nyx assassin

So nyx is one of my favorite hero’s and lately I’ve been messing around with different builds on him two things I’ve been wondering though is why doesn’t anyone seem to get agility items for him? If anyone’s got the +100 agi talent knows it makes him attack super fast and hit decently hard combine that with his nukes and a digital blade not really anyone he can’t take down. Second orchid. Why is this not an item for him? Gives attack speed mana regen and a silence as well as the fact you can upgrade to bloodthorn later. Obviously these are meant for a more pos 3 but still thoughts?

Posted Oct 18, 2018, 5:56 PM UTC

230
BurnsyCEOJust kill them LOOL 4Head•

Nyx is not a hero that can farm at all. So he is played as a space creator/ganker. If you try farming orchid and ebalde you're gonna be useless for the whole early game.

2
MyriadSloths•

Just go battlefury and 5 butterflies, ez.

1
greekcel_25•

You don’t get agi items because they suck until 25 and he’s not a great flashfarmer. The agi with an eblade is enough.

Orchid is an item for him if you need it, but hex is usually the pickup if you can save that much anyway. I don’t think a lategame bloodthorn is bad though.

1
Fortune_451ancient 2•

I like Battlefury plus treads for right click nyx. You really want to get 25 asap. I think orchid sounds nice too. Just try not to farm too much if you already have a heavy farmer like AM. Otherwise it will be hard for your team to get through the early game. But yea you can do stuff like this. Just have to judge if the particular game allows it.

1
funguy3Ancient 5 EU•

The last thing i want to see is my Nyx farming for the first 15 min. You can win the game by yourself in this time period, dont just stand in a lane farming.

Nyx is an invis hero, the best thing an invis hero can do is NOT BE IN VISION. This makes the enemy play afraid and move around/farm inefficiently, this is so much effective than trying to cosplay a shitty Antimage or Riki.

1
JenobiousOP•

Idk just played a game bf/diffusal/meteor hammer/eather lens/bots and wards prob wouldn’t have won without the lane push. And that’s my point everyone’s so concerned about getting kills lol the point of the game is to take objectives. Yes kills and team fights are a part of that but I can’t tell you how many games I’ve lost because my team was just running around glory seeking

0
galvanickoreaInvoker•

Nyx is a good ganker idk what youre talking about

1
JenobiousOP•

He’s ok but he’s just lacking somewhere with it and if you don’t get them with your initial burst most likely you’re going to die

1
galvanickoreaInvoker•

Well thats the same with any hero... and nyx is not meant to burst people by himself

1
JenobiousOP•

Well this the discussion with regards to agility items on him def makes your right clicks less useless imo also helps in team fights after you’ve burned through your initial spells

1
galvanickoreaInvoker•

I think the most you can go in a normal game without it being considered a throw is treads aquila. Theres a lot of downtime, especially in lower mmr where you want to be hitting creeps. You sacrifice the mana pool from arcanes but you hit neutrals and clear the waves a bit faster so i personally find it not so bad... well thats my take on right click items

1
Tziltopf•

I don't really build any AGI items apart from early aquilla and treads early, and then after aghs maybe getting an Eblade, skadi or bfly because it would actually be good that particular game. He's much more built around being a spell caster/ganker/stay alive-r, so most items will be either to make him cast more spells in teamfights, or to burst people down more in ganks, a primarily-right-clicking nyx just isn't very useful, as he has no innate ability to utilise the agi, apart from just getting damage from it, Bounty hunter is a lot more suitable for that.

1
JenobiousOP•

Again I’m not saying a pure right click build by any means but unless you’re talking about building an octoreen core you’re only ever gonna be able to use your spell once in a team fight maybe spikes and mana burn twice so what do you do then? Mainly I’m curious what anyone else does on him outside of the norm and personally I’m not a big fan of Dagon. For example one build I’ll go with would be arcanes then meteor hammer diffusal blade aether lens BoTs end game either eblade sythe spirit vessel or butterfly

2
Tziltopf•

Well personally, I think aghs is just too strong to ever pass up, and once you have it, you could get any item, which for me is eblade majority of the time.

IMO the flaw with that build is it's too diverse and therefore jack of all trades master of none: Arcanes help you spam spells, Hammer helps you push and farm, Diffusal makes you a better right clicker, aether lens makes your spells reach further. That's over 8000 gold not counting boots, for a build that counters itself. Hammer can be channeled further, but while you're doing that you're not attacking, which I would (hopefully) imagine the entire premise of the Diffusal is in the first place. And if you're attacking, having this much commitment to mana isn't efficient. I know diff is the, or at least one of most cost efficient attack speed/damage items, but it doesn't matter if you spend another 5k to get better at literally everything that ISN'T attacking. Like you said

unless you’re talking about building an octoreen core you’re only ever gonna be able to use your spell once in a team fight maybe spikes and mana burn twice so

No flame, or insult intended, but you're not solving that issue by getting an aether lens to make your INITIAL spell use better. And to answer

what do you do then?

I don't get there to begin with. With Aghs. Aghs makes your Impale cooldown go from 14 seconds to 7. And increases your cast range by more than Aether lens, with a lot more utility. You want to make your spells better? The answer is Kaya, Kaya, Kaya. Spell amp, mana cost reduction, INT. I don't go for it often, but if going for spell damage, there is no alternative even close to good enough. And I'd get an Eblade with this build too.

The key is striking a balance, especially as an offlane nyx, between being a right clicker and a spell caster. It's not the best idea to fully commit to either one, but you can go for a good medium with some item choices, but no matter what I would ALWAYS go Aquilla > Treads > Aghs Unless you're being hard countered, Aghs is just always a great item on Nyx, the stats are great, makes your spells better, the list goes on. But most importantly it works with any items that you would want to go for, like;

Radiance: If enemies can't see you, they can't take you down, and if they can't take you down, you're going to burn them for a lot of damage. Also increases farming by a lot.

Skadi: Here's the trick to clicker-nyx: Aghs makes you a better clicker, by making your spells better. You can hit someone, plomp down under them, carapace stun, impale stun, jump out and click them until cooldowns are up, plomp down, repeat. Skadi is amazing because of the huge amount of stats it gives, all 3 of them being utilised fully by Nyx.

AC: Offlaner item in general, makes your attacks better, whilst also offering similar "haha fuck you while you cant see me" teamfight utility like radiance.

Shivas: Increases EHP, and gives you another "nuke" and again, teamfight presence.

Abyssal: Impale then burrow then carapace then stun then jump and right click.

Octarine: You like casting spells? Maybe you'd like to cast MORE spells?

Solar Crest, Halberd, Blademail, Pipe, Crimson: Very good in a handful of games, definitely work with nyx' kit.

Butterfly, Orchid, Scythe, Hammer: I see you already like these items, I do too, you probably know why they're good so I'll finish my rant with those.

Nyx can utilise almost any item, but these are the best, with also situational picks, but most important is Aghs. You are a completely different hero once you have it, and can accomplish so much, any item you get afterwards is pretty much luxury, and therefore could be anything. The difference between the items I suggest going, and the ones you suggested, is that yours is 8k to do different things, none of them well, while each of these items does multiple things well, in one slot, each of them below 6k. Most of these with Aghs also fall close to 8k as well. I hope this wasn't too long to read and didn't come off as condescending, if you have any more questions I'd be happy to answer.

TL;DR: That's 8k on 3 items that do too much, none of it well enough, while Aghs at 4k, does all of it better, so focus on a single item that offers a lot, than a lot of items that do a single thing each.

1
JenobiousOP•

See I don’t find aghs particularly worth it all the enemy has to do is run away and you have no way to chase them without unburrowing. To clarify with the build I mentioned the combo would go as follows vendetta into impale then immediately hammer (the stun lasts just long enough to get through the channel) that’s where the diffusal come in so while they’re stunned they’re taking damage from the hammers dot getting mana burned and damage from the right click and you haven’t even used mana burn or spiked carapace and even if they do manage to run at that point usually the hammer dot will take the rest and if you have an urn on top of that? Pretty hard to get away. But I see the point you’re trying to make so let me ask this instead of aghs why not orchid? That would amp your spells and give you attack speed and mana regen

1
Tziltopf•

Because try to be as effective at pushing with an orchid as you are with Aghs. You can burrow just out of tower vision range, and hit enemies from the other side. That is actually insane, high grounding becomes incredible with a nyx who can constantly provide vision and get disables, any half capable teammates would be able to just walk in and destroy the base, orchid just gives a silence and stats, aghs gives you the most broken ability in the game. You don't need to be afk burrowed just trying to spam your spells, it's actually the point to unburrow and move around, you only need to burrow to make use of the CDR, and the carapace stun, not only that but when you burrow its pretty much a portable fountain with the passive regen, so once you aghs, say goodbye to ever going to base. There's simply no item that will ever give you the insane amount of utility that Aghs gives you, and I used to hate it too, building Nyx for ganking before hammer, so dagon eblade, and it sucked, because the higher skill opponents you face, the less likely solo ganks with nyx are going to work, as a position 3, you can solo kill a 4 or 5 without any items anyway, and unless youre godly in a game, and are 6 slotted when the enemy carry is 3, you wont kill them with any items either, so ganking doesn't need to amped, it doesn't get any better at doing something you can already do, which is kill supports, and it doesnt make you any less bad at doing something you couldnt, which is kill cores. Your ganking is perfectly sufficient without any items to increase it, but your teamfighting with an aghs is extremely destructive. Even if you could have a build that can solo kill carries, it wont do anything outside of that, Orchid will silence people whenever it's not on cooldown, and hammer can bring down towers, but outside of that, just like you said, you use your kit and you're done, just standing around clicking things, which if you dont have anything to make it worthwhile, like a crit, or a slow, is useless. Underlord has a way to increase his right click but even he only builds pure utility, and no clicker items. Abaddon benefits from clicks and only builds utility items. Nyx's click has nothing, so making it better is compensating, which is terrible in dota. You should never aim to try to make your weaknesses less bad, but to amplify your strengths. And nyx's strengths are teamfights and ganks, ganks which wont get better with items, and teamfights that will never get better than they would with aghs.

1
JenobiousOP•

Match ID 4203764847 agi nyx gg Diffusal treads butterfly s&y battlefury and if the courier had gotten there in time Daedalus

1
JenobiousOP•

I’ve really never had an issue farming with nyx quelling blade and you’re usually good I can usually farm up diffusal by about 15min mark after getting boots and if you really want to farm better battle fury isn’t that hard to get already got the quelling blade perseverance is good for regen the blade is the only thing that takes a while but after that farm baby farm

-1
JakeUbowskiCreeping Death - 1.5k Chump•

If you want to afk farm a bf there are better heroes to do that. Farming means missing out on ganking opportunities. Yes you can make your one hero better, but is that better than making your 4 other teammates stronger by ganking? Opportunity costs.

1
JenobiousOP•

But that’s the issue nyx isn’t a great ganker you blow through his spells and he’s pretty much useless and if you farm by pushing lanes which lets be honest no one does in pubs it’s really not afk

0
Fortune_451ancient 2•

Nyx is good at ganking, maybe not solo kills always but the most powerful thing about the hero is that you can go invis and scout out a hero with a teammate following a little behind. Then the two of you get that easy kill. Also amazing with a hero like invoker or wind for the long range finishing blow.

1
JenobiousOP•

I guess my main point is he’s an agility hero yet all builds for him focus on intelligence which already scales well on him adding agility just makes him better rounded imo after all the spells are used gives you some actual right click damage to help finish them off and diffusal just adds the mana burn for extra dmg as well as limiting they’re counter ability

1
JakeUbowskiCreeping Death - 1.5k Chump•

Line stun, carapace, and mana burn can make for good ganks. Sure he's not the best ganker but he's better at ganking than he is at afk farming a bf.

1
JenobiousOP•

Maybe not bf that’s situational but you don’t think diffusal would help with those ganks? And let’s not forget it can slow them from running away when they have that little sliver of health left

1