Why the Yellow Vest Protests Should be a Wake-Up Call for the Center-Left.

DISCUSSION

The center-left wants to make use of, perhaps even rehabilitate the far-left into their political tent. During the recent yellow vest protests, we’re seeing far-left people ally with moderate to far-right elements against a climate change tax. We can presume that they are doing this because they feel the climate change tax doesn’t go far enough, so naturally they will join some riots. How is leftist progress to be made if anything short of a huge leap leftwards makes far-leftists join their supposed enemies in rioting? The answer should be that said progress can’t be made: these far-leftists are not going to cooperate with anyone.

The smartest leftists know that the above is true and this may be contributing to their panic, which is apparent if you consider the following. The ignominious behavior from Macron and the media over this protest is related to that and here is what they are doing if you didn’t notice: Macron said he would scrap the fuel tax but what he meantwas that he would delay its implementation. The media has been reporting this as if the fuel tax is gone permanently when it is in fact only delayed. I’ve also seen media reports (falsely, it seems) claiming that the protesters are accepting the lie and going home. Their goal seems to be this: lie to the protesters, get some of them to leave, break the rest up with tear gas and fire hoses, then implement the tax. It’s a dirty, desperate trick and it doesn’t seem to be working.

When it fails, the center-left has two choices. One, they can admit that their coalition doesn’t exist. Two, they can pretend it exists but fear the riots should they ever attempt a concrete implementation of their proposals again.

Other implications: Macron will obviously not be re-elected, he may have to resign, migrants have surely inflamed these protests well beyond their normal parameters (they are willing to join in with legitimate protests, not just riot on their own, which arguably makes the migrants a threat to those who brought them in), the Eurozone can possibly tick a stable country off of their list (what’s left now besides Germany and a few small countries?) and if people in France can act like this, you can kiss any chance goodbye of enacting policies like this in several other countries.

In sum, the fantasy of big tent center-leftism as we have known it is finished. The only question now is if they acknowledge this or simply go quietly into the dark.

Source: https://meanderstowardtheright.wordpress.com/2018/12/06/why-the-yellow-vest-protests-should-be-a-wake-up-call-for-the-center-left/

Posted Dec 6, 2018, 8:18 AM UTC · edited

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killinnnmesmallzNovice•

This is just not accurate. The Yellow Vests are protesting the carbon tax and the high cost of living in Paris. There are no "leftist" Yellow Vests joining the protests who believe the carbon tax is too low. There is absolutely no support for that theory. They are protesting because the carbon tax is too high. I've read through many sources, including French newspapers, and watched some of the television interviews. All reports are in agreement about this.

Besides, anyone who's ever met a French person knows that none of them ever want more taxes.

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Alexander_RayOPCompetent•

So you're saying that leftists are against a carbon tax now?

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killinnnmesmallzNovice•

Parisians are protesting for two reasons: (1) the carbon tax and (2) the general high cost of living in Paris. If there are leftist protestors they are going to be there for the second reason rather than the first. This claim that it should be a "wake-up call for the center-left" is therefore nonsense.

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DynamaticoNovice•

No. The rioting and protests are not about carbon tax any more, they're about the working class getting gouged by various different types of taxation, living standards getting worse every year and the cost of living continuing to rise. Whether you're left, center or right, these are issues that affect everyone. Even the most ardent environmental socialist cares more about putting food on their table than about climate change.

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TurtsMacGurtsBeginner•

This is classic working class vs the ruling class, which Macron represents and supports.

The gas tax disproportionately hits the workers in France, who have seen their bargaining power deteriorating, wages and standard of living dropping since the Recession.

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AntiAntiAntiFashNovice•

The far left joined the protests because Macron isnt left wing. He is center right and people only voted him because Le Pen was even more to the right.

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Alexander_RayOPCompetent•

So if a center-right guy (granting this for the sake of argument) passes a tax to try an combat climate change, it makes sense for environmentalists to riot?

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marapunBeginner•

71% of global emissions since 1988 have been produced by just 100 companies, so carbon-taxing joe public isn't going to be very effective, unfortunately. They're rioting because it's just a stealth tax increase.

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Alexander_RayOPCompetent•

100

Just guessing, do any of these 100 companies resell diesel or gas to French consumers? Is taxing the company supposed to not have an effect on the consumers?

In other words, do you believe any of these companies can be carbon taxed without passing those costs further down the economic chain? Can you give an example of one such company?

I'm going to guess that you can't because you haven't thought basic economics through. Taxing one of these large companies is unlikely to make a difference without effecting the people actually using the fuel or its byproducts.

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marapunBeginner•

Just guessing, do any of these 100 companies resell diesel or gas to French consumers?

I'm sure they do. More specifically, I'd say that these companies are selling energy in some way or another to most of the people in the developed world.

In other words, do you believe any of these companies can be carbon taxed without passing those costs further down the economic chain?

No, I don't - these companies will absolutely pass costs down the line. However, each company's competitors (mostly other companies on the list) will have to do the same. Even if all of them pass 100% of the tax down the line, each company will still have a clear, immediate financial advantage if they manage to increase their ratio of non-polluting output at all, i.e. lowering what percentage of their product consists of hydrocarbons = lowering their tax burden and guaranteeing an increase in profit.

Taxing one of these large companies is unlikely to make a difference without effecting the people actually using the fuel or its byproducts.

I agree with you here - I'm fully expecting a Carbon tax to affect everyone no matter who in the economy it is applied to. What I'm saying is that it's more effective to apply these taxes to the energy producers instead of the consumers - they're the ones actually sourcing the supply. Nobody wants less energy, the idea is to make it financially advantageous to exploit less destructive sources.

In the short term, with no regulation and no taxes on the suppliers, a company trying to make a quick buck will always choose the easiest, cheapest energy resource. They're not obliged to research or increase renewable production and it costs them money to do so. The issue now is that the environment will suffer catastrophic change before the supply of 'dirty' energy becomes scarce enough for normal supply&demand rules make it less profitable than the clean stuff.

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AntiAntiAntiFashNovice•

Do people destroy the environment or do the companies destroy the environment? Left wing wants governments to tax companies and not tell people its their fault and paying more for gas will save everything. We need to stop company pollution.

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stephen89Beginner•

People destroy the environment. Or are you one of those people who likes to pretend companies aren't people? Does it make you feel better that way? To pretend that companies aren't people?

Left wing govt wants power, stop pretending to be morally superior when you're holding a gun to the head of the people and literally advocating for stealing from them, silencing them, or in some cases outright threatening them.

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AntiAntiAntiFashNovice•

How many left governments have lowered taxes for the rich? Only left wing Macron did was being less right wing than Le Pen

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stephen89Beginner•

The far left joined the protests because Macron isnt left wing

K, I'm tired of this nonsense you people spout day in and day out. Hillary isn't left wing shes center-right. Macron isn't left wing hes center-right. It seems none of you people want to take responsibility for your own candidates. Its pathetic and its old and its tiresome.

I bet you're one of those people who pretends CNN is center-right too.

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AntiAntiAntiFashNovice•

For USA macron isnt right wing. But for europe he is. Maybe you are the one who need some reading to do :)

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AntiAntiAntiFashNovice•

Just because USA doesnt have a real left wing doesnt mean Hillary is left wing

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zoloft_rocketNovice•

It does have a real right wing, it's the US that has a right wing and a batshit insane reactionary wing.

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impossibleforkBeginner•

Hillary isn't left wing though. She opposes even typical centre-left/centrist policies like publicly funded higher education.

Japan's government isn't left wing. But publicly funded higher education is a non-starter there, just as it is almost everywhere except in the US.

Clinton isn't left wing. Immigration in Sweden didn't happen because people were left wing. It happened, first because people were naïve and later because other people wanted cheap labour to break the unions, to increase the labour supply and reduce their labour costs.

The people in the US who want cheap South American labour to work on their farms, are they left wing?

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stephen89Beginner•

The people in the US who want cheap South American labour to work on their farms, are they left wing?

Yes, literally the only party calling for open border is the fucking left. You people are mentally ill.

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dinkoplicianBeginner•

The Koch brothers support open borders. At this point the right/left distinction disappears and it becomes globalists vs. their own people. Both parties in DC have far more in common with each other than they do us deplorable commoners. Here's a 2015 exchange between Ezra Klein and Bernie Sanders that is highly relevant:

Ezra Klein

You said being a democratic socialist means a more international view. I think if you take global poverty that seriously, it leads you to conclusions that in the US are considered out of political bounds. Things like sharply raising the level of immigration we permit, even up to a level of open borders. About sharply increasing ...

Bernie Sanders

Open borders? No, that's a Koch brothers proposal.

Ezra Klein

Really?

Bernie Sanders

Of course. That's a right-wing proposal, which says essentially there is no United States. ...

Ezra Klein

But it would make ...

Bernie Sanders

Excuse me ...

Ezra Klein

It would make a lot of global poor richer, wouldn't it?

Bernie Sanders

It would make everybody in America poorer —you're doing away with the concept of a nation state, and I don't think there's any country in the world that believes in that. If you believe in a nation state or in a country called the United States or UK or Denmark or any other country, you have an obligation in my view to do everything we can to help poor people. What right-wing people in this country would love is an open-border policy. Bring in all kinds of people, work for $2 or $3 an hour, that would be great for them. I don't believe in that. I think we have to raise wages in this country, I think we have to do everything we can to create millions of jobs.

You know what youth unemployment is in the United States of America today? If you're a white high school graduate, it's 33 percent, Hispanic 36 percent, African American 51 percent. You think we should open the borders and bring in a lot of low-wage workers, or do you think maybe we should try to get jobs for those kids?

I think from a moral responsibility we've got to work with the rest of the industrialized world to address the problems of international poverty, but you don't do that by making people in this country even poorer.

Ezra Klein

Then what are the responsibilities that we have? Someone who is poor by US standards is quite well off by, say, Malaysian standards, so if the calculation goes so easily to the benefit of the person in the US, how do we think about that responsibility?

We have a nation-state structure. I agree on that. But philosophically, the question is how do you weight it? How do you think about what the foreign aid budget should be? How do you think about poverty abroad?

Bernie Sanders

I do weigh it. As a United States senator in Vermont, my first obligation is to make certain kids in my state and kids all over this country have the ability to go to college, which is why I am supporting tuition-free public colleges and universities.

https://www.vox.com/2015/7/28/9014491/bernie-sanders-vox-conversation

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impossibleforkBeginner•

They vote for the Democrats, certainly, but their actions are clearly against the US working class. That is not something that fits with some kind of 'proper' leftism.

I do not see the difference between Trumpian and Democrat policy as a right-left difference. The scale going from protectionism to free trade isn't really a left-right difference.

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zoloft_rocketNovice•

We literally aren't.

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[deleted]•

The far left is joining the protest because they jump at any chance for anarchy. It's a perfect scenario for them. They get to do as much destruction as they want and everyone will blame the yellow vests. These people want to topple any capitalist system. It doesn't matter if it's a left-wing government. Unless it's communism they riot.

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Randy_BenderNimble Navigator•

I agree with you, they're taking "democratic socialism" to its logical conclusion, far ahead of the center leftists. In fact I think the center left is losing to the far left and their parties are being taken over.

I mean the line between "refugees welcome" to open borders is pretty thin, and that's what the far left wants. They want to destroy nations and bring the entire world under one system, communism. They realize that capitalism will out compete communism so the revolution must be global. They plan to bring over here millions of low IQ third worlders and together they'll overthrow capitalism. They know they can't do it with the native populations intact because half of the populace won't go along with it.

Now here's the scary part, these people, the communists, are all over the place like rats. They wear masks and hide behind our established norms. They'll tell you to have compassion and let savages come into our countries, but it's not about compassion, there's a sinister plan they're putting into action.

The enemy's actions won't make sense unless you realize their end goal which is killing off conservatives by any means necessary. Immigration, taxation, subversion, demoralization, everything is done with that one purpose.

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LeviathanAuroraBeginner•

The next form of government in France will be a NatSoc government or a fascist one.

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