Source
r/AskReddit•
Reothecube

Hey Reddit, why is FDR almost always one of the top 3 presidents?

Ok, I think FDR did a good job. I also think that he was a charismatic man, and definitely kept up the spirits of the country, and definitely knew how to talk. He's one of the few presidents any of my friends know anything about and therefore becomes very high on the list but he made a lot of mistakes, and for some reason everyone seems to forget about it

1.)FDR helped, but didn't stop the depression (I know a lot of people that thinks he did), he curved it slightly, but when the we pulled back a bit of the money, hoping that it'll float, the economy tanked pretty hard, and didn't get employment back to prior levels til Lend-Lease started to roll in. I realize that's not completely how the economy works by just employment but, that was one of the big parts of the New Deal.

2.)The original Judiciary Reorganization Bill of 1937 was tantamount to treason, it upset the balance of power and basically got whatever he wanted through with the court packing clause, even majority of Americans were behind this belief when tried to get it through according to most opinion polls at the time

3.)He kind of left us with the Cold War at Yalta, allowing Stalin to take Eastern Europe (There were a multitude of things that year that pushed it through but this was the starting point in most opinions I believe), kind of left Ho Chi Minh out in the cold as well after his death

4.)Wanted the full Morgenthau Plan, he wanted Germany to suffer and remember that they lost the war, I mean what better way than to make them starve and have their economy remain in shambles, his secretary of state thought it was a very bad idea, and the Joint Chiefs tried to make their own plan similar to the extent Morgenthau wanted it (It was still a very brutal plan that lasted a good while, and prevented their recovery and Truman went with it, only to pull away their plan 2 years later because it stagnated the economy of Europe, but it likely would have been worse under FDR) punishing Germany that hard... that worked the first time around right?

I mean there are variety of other little things, like Huey Long and Share Our Wealth having roughly 10% of the US populace as active members before his death and that was when the economy started to get better under the New Deal, if the 37 recession happened under his watch, it would have tough fight for re-election in 40 if Long ran for president. It seems a bit funny that FDR also played out of Long's book when he pointed the "superrich" causing a lot of the problems later on during the depression. But am I the only one that feels that he shouldn't be in the top 3 (Definitely somewhere reasonably high though), that he's just remembered as being super amazing, but he made a lot of mistakes, some fed by his own ego, and yet is always somehow ranked right below Lincoln and often have George Washington right behind him?

I'm sure I'm going to get burned, but if I'm wrong, I'd really like to know about it

Posted Nov 17, 2009, 12:01 AM UTC

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wjg10•

I think you are going to get a lot FDR bashers here in a little while, and they will point to more mistakes he made and the unwarranted credit he gets about the Depression.

I think it's more of an issue of influence. As in he had a ton. He set the tone for the twentieth century as far as presidential politics go. His agenda wasn't really dead until the Reagan Revolution. Sure there were some presidents who strayed (Nixon) but liberalism permeated politics until the 80's. Some historians have said that the FDR regime carried us through wwII and really ended when Carter could no longer hold it up.

edit: spelling

5
ReothecubeOP•

Well, that's a little bump is with Eisenhower more than Nixon, Nixon kind of went closer to FDR economic policies than almost any Democrat (But that's my humble opinion on his economic policy), but overall they still went along with a very strong Keynesian economic policy. It was Reagan that did a significant amount of damage to the economy with his tax cuts along with various other things but that's a whole different story.

Well, he does deserve credit, just not as much as society gives him, I mean having him ranked above Lincoln and Washington, kind of seems... messed up, although he's rarely above Lincoln, he's almost always ahead of Washington, and Washington had his head really straight headed and done a lot during the presidency from everything I read, I just can't see FDR being higher than him, for a variety of reasons, the big ones, I've stated.

2
wjg10•

Yeah, Reagan just hammered away at 50 years of policy.

I largely agree on FDR. Another think to think about is how much the presidency changed in the 20th c from the 19th. FDR was a big time rhetorical president. Pretty unprecedented really. Before him presidents didn't often address the public (except for ceremonious reasons) but FDR changed that, and now presidents go over the head of Congress and are often influenced by opinion polls. Washington lead in a different time, when that branch of government seemed to have an entirely different role. Very tough to compare.

2
yiddish_policeman•

Simple. In four terms he turned America from a Depression-ridden, mostly agrarian sideliner to the most powerful country on earth.

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rhino369•

The United States was no longer mostly agrarian well before FDR. FDR is beloved because he held the US together during the depression and WWII. He was a fairly good president.

1
ReothecubeOP•

Not saying he wasn't, I think he did a reasonably good job but I have strong reservations about him being one of the top 3.

1
ReothecubeOP•

But... we were already the richest country by 1914. On an economic scale we were the 50 foot gorilla. We kind of were the economic superpower of the era, and this went into well into the 20s and 30s. So maybe I'm not seeing this right, but we were pretty powerful and became probably the man in charge after the Great War. Though, I suppose our Armed Forces were minute during the 30s (something like 17th in the world) and that's kind of well known but we mobilized pretty fast, the end of second war just cemented the US' place. I guess it's all in what the normal person see's view though and in the end, that's how most people are going to react

1
logantauranga•

I've been reading a little about the buildup to WW2, and it's interesting to see Roosevelt's maneuvering and long-term strategy on both fronts. It's hard to think of anyone else who had anything close to his vision, or who could read the German zeitgeist with such clarity.
This is quite apart from his presence as a speaker and as a rallying point for the country. They myth Americans build up around their Caesars draws much of its flavor from a small number of great men, so in a way FDR's myth reinforces itself.

1
ReothecubeOP•

We cut off Japan's oil supply, we knew they were going to strike, they've already attacked us in 37, almost got themselves into War with Britain in June of 39, it was only a matter of time, they've pretty much conquered China sans for a bit of resistance, not to mention the fact that we froze their assets, and refused to talk to them. I don't think that was predictability, that's just common sense.

As with the Germans, well, I think seeing and dealing with the Bund in the 30s, made it very clear for him, that Nazis aren't exactly friends, on top of Lend-Lease making it very clear that we were supporting Britain in their struggle and kind of pushed us in that direction. There are a variety of other little things, but it saying he saw the zeitgeist with such clarity... yeah, all of Americans did, the Bund was Nazism on American soil and they were clearly against whatever Roosevelt was for. Though if you mean if the administration started to prep for war during 1940 with a peacetime draft and somehow convinced America he'd keep us out of the war during his 3rd campaign. Then yeah I suppose he did a good job, though it's strikingly clear now (Not sure if it was then, but the draft got a lot of people in a tizzy in 40, especially the isolation groups, not sure how rampant the belief was though)

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logantauranga•

It wasn't FDR's choice to cut off all oil to Japan — he got back from a trip and an underling had gone ahead and done it. Certainly America wanted to limit Japanese expansion and was unhappy with the Chinese occupation. It's interesting to read alt-hist on the subject, as Japan had a few options there, though they had militarized their society to such an extent that conflict with America was always a strong possibility.

US ships began depth-charging German submarines long before America declared war; it was neutrality in name only, as FDR began exerting control over large swathes of the Atlantic. What would have been very interesting is if American supplies and 'international volunteers' were sent en masse to the Eastern Front via the Baltic Sea. Surely at some point Germany would have declared war on America, with or without Japanese involvement.

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BdaMann•

He did a reasonably good job as president, kept the country out of turmoil, and is probably one of the most influential presidents ever. Many of his reforms are still in effect today.

Although I agree with every single point you made, and I do think he is very overrated, he was the most important president of the 20th century.

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