The Waypoint crew has hollow knight fan's back and did a short podcast about their love for Hornet. And Patrick hates the Deep Nest. For those wanting to hear a podcast about their favorite game of 2017, this is pretty good.
Also, Fuck the Radiance.
https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/a3magb/our-favorite-games-of-2018-hollow-knight
Posted Dec 20, 2018, 5:55 PM UTC
What even is the title of this thread?
Waypoint loves Hollow Knight, even the GB crew couldn't get into it(no shade).
I also don’t understand the title.
10/10 for perfect clarification.
Hollow Knight fuckin rules. Never understood why nobody at GB liked it. Feeling lost while exploring new parts of the map is core to the fucking genre. Shit, it’s core to games.
Sure feeling lost is. But remaining lost for an additional 2 hours after because of a convoluted map system, slow early game traversal, and fewer checkpoints than any other metroidvania is not "core to the genre" and is in fact bad.
I got through it and it was ultimately very enjoyable, but I don't blame anyone for quitting and deciding there is something better to do.
But remaining lost for an additional 2 hours after because of a convoluted map system
I never really understood this complaint; I didn't really ever get lost, aside from maybe the Deepnest. I never had an issue with the map.
and fewer checkpoints than any other metroidvania
The lack of benches kind of drove me crazy, because too much of the game is backtracking. Yeah, there are some shortcuts but it still took a long time to get between benches. The game auto-saves anyway but I would like to have seen more benches in more convenient spots.
Same for like...fast-travel. I wish I could have fast traveled to certain locations (the Coliseum for instance) that I return to often.
Being able to suspend on the Switch was also a godsend.
I never really understood this complaint; I didn't really ever get lost, aside from maybe the Deepnest. I never had an issue with the map.
Sure but that doesn't mean other people didn't struggle. I'll share this story again. And this is someone who didn't mind too much and continued to finish the game. So imagine from the POV of someone who isn't committed.
I've given this example before, but the first time I tried the game, I ended up wasting over 2 hours of playtime because I didn't go down the path in the gardens to the second boss. Instead it lets you go through the jellyfish area to the city area, which is a dead end, but gives you a fast travel back up top. However, because I didn't now this, I went to the city area, said to myself "this is dangerous I should backtrack", went back up top so I could save and spend my Geo, then went all the way back, discovered it was a dead end with fast travel, assumed then that there must be a path forward in the city or in the jellyfish area, and spent the rest of my gaming time making zero progress.
That sucks, and it can happen in multiple points in the game. I'm not saying that it's a deal breaker, but it's a problem at the very least and I'm not surprised that a number of people dropped off after having an experience like that.
But also it makes sense that some people just didn't have this ever. You always found the mapmaker, you didn't consider how weird it was the third zone gives no map, you didn't make a wrong turn during critical upgrade paths, etc.
Hm, perhaps. It's not so much I meant other people don't struggle as much as, I never encountered any of those issues when I played and was surprised to see others did.
I always looked for Conifer first in any area, fog was the only one I couldn't.
None of them got into Bloodborne either if I remember correctly, sometimes something just doesn't click with them.
Nah, Dan finished. Jeff liked it a little and played half. Brad made some decent progress too. I think Jason also finished.
And Bloodborne I understand, because it’s so fucking hard
I've been meaning to give Hollow Knight another go. I just wish the map system was a bit more accessible. I tend to get lost a lot until finding the map maker. I like the metroidvania style of uncovering the map and slowly learning about the area.
I was listening to Kotaku Splitscreen and they were saying after a while it kind of clicks, but they made it sound like that was several hours in.
Yeah that was my major complaint with the game when I played it on PC back in 2017.
I want to give it another try on the Switch, but I'm worried about the same map issues. Especially because I often play without sound on the Switch, so I'm not even going to be able to try and follow the map makers song.
But the music and sound effects are so good! It's legitimately one of my favorite aspects of the game.
It took me until I got the double jump to fully realize what was great about the game. That being said the map system never get easier, it even get harder, forcing you to navigate big part of the game without a map if you don’t enter a zone from a specific spot.
It wants you to get your bearings without a map. I can totally see why this might turn people off though.
I enjoyed the game from the jump but a lot of people think the game picks up after you get some extra mobility options, as it unlocks more of the map as wall as making the normal traversal from place to place a little bit faster.
I kind of ignored the game for a long time, all I knew was that the internet absolutely loved it and most of the GB crew were luke warm at best on it.
Friend picked it up a few weeks back during a psn sale and I ended up buying it a bit later while getting annoying with RDR2.
I have not been this into a game in a LONG TIME. I think I've put a tad over 80 hours in about 3 weeks. My save file is sitting at 111% out of 112% and I'm only missing 3 trophies(I never hunt trophies). I'm thinking of buying it again when I get a Switch.
I thought the original RPS review of HollowKnight nailed it and I can't believe we're still talking about this game.
Hollow Knight [official site] presents a peculiar issue. What do you do with a game that is genuinely good, but rather unoriginal? A game that is so, so similar to others that have come recently before it, but is still a beautifully drawn, solidly built metroidvania? Do you say, “Get this one, because it’s the most recent?” That’s not a coherent argument. Unfortunately for Hollow Knight, I think the design decisions that narrowly define it are really its core weaknesses
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/03/02/hollow-knight-review/
P.S. I haven't been on RPS in a while it seems. What is this godawful Eurogamer white background site?
Tbh I think that is a terrible review. Lots of games are very similar to other games, so what? If it is very good, it's simply good enough to recommend and deserves it place.
Besides that it's not even true. The artstyle alone sets Hollow Knight pretty far apart from other games in the genre, and I actually thought the combat felt very unique as well with it's deliberate pacing yet very smooth animations and responsive controls.
My only problem with Hollow Knight was the placement of waypoints. I thought the travel time was simply too long in a game where you are bound to die a lot.
Have you played much of Hollow Knight though? I recall reading that review and it felt like Team Cherry stole the reviewers lunch money or something.
I'm not going to say the game is perfect, but if you're going to say it's extremely similar to Ori and that it's better in every facet that's going to raise an eyebrow. Ori has basically no combat, is fairly linear and the physics feel fluid like N+. Hollow Knight on the other hand has tight and frequent combat, a world that opens wide after the intro and physics that resemble Super Meat Boy. They're both fantastic but very different games in the same genre.
I rarely feel the need to defend anything I have no weight in but that review was something else, it riles me up.
I always found it super baffling myself, on the other hand Hollow Knight is the most original « one of those » that came out in a while, at least design wise.
Unlike say Ori, it’s not set on a straight path and lets you explore in any direction you want. It has a story and side-stories that evolve organically as you progress through the game instead of being in a log, it has an underlying melancholy and actual character.
Like sure it’s « one of those », but RPS both praised Ori and Axiom Verge, two games that don’t stray away from the tropes at all, and it’s fine, I love ‘em too, but acting like they’re more original than Hollow Knight sounds like missing the point to me.
Not hating on RPS, I actually visit the site pretty often too.
Will there still be a Waypoint at this point in 2019?
But... Rorie liked it
Could totally understand why the GB crew didn’t like it, but God I love this game (and on the other hand I can’t get into Dead Cells even though that comparison never made complete sense).
Fuck the Nightmare King I guess, but I actually loved beating him after 2 hours of trying.
I will argue that the first 5 hours of that game are very bad because they hold back the dash and wall jump. Peoples discomfort with the map system is well documented of course. But I think that discomfort is rooted in the fact that it sucks to move around until you have both of those abilities. Once you have them, the game is a joy because you are equipped to explore the world without fear of being harshly punished for a single mistake.
I love Hollow Knight to death and I’m saving the latest DLC for this Xmass break, but the early parts of that game far meaner than the rest of the game is.
Also: Nintendo needs to give me the power to buy a Hornet and Knight amiibo.
Edit: Also Dead Cells is great and I can't wait for the new patch that makes the RNG slightly less bullshit.
My only problem with it is the map system and how I put it down while I was on vacation and now have no idea what to do or where to go.
This happens to me in every metroidvania game I play, including Hollow Knight. It's why I prefer these games to be pretty short. If I don't beat them in 3-4 days I'll basically be guaranteed to forget what I'm doing and different parts of the map.